English term
I wish I was rich OR I wish I were rich???
5 +32 | I wish I were rich. |
Robert Forstag
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5 +10 | I wish I was rich, I wish I were rich |
Denise Leitao
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5 +1 | It depends!! |
FWLS (X)
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Nov 12, 2008 23:53: Robert Forstag changed "Language pair" from "Portuguese to English" to "English"
Nov 13, 2008 06:01: Alison Schwitzgebel changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Nov 13, 2008 12:35: Robert Forstag changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (1): Will Matter
Non-PRO (2): Liliana Galiano, Egil Presttun
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Responses
I wish I were rich.
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Note added at 5 mins (2008-11-12 23:55:38 GMT)
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Note:
In informal speech, "was" is frequently used in such instances, but this really constitutes substandard speech.
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Konstantin Kisin
0 min
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Thanks, KK.
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Marlene Curtis
0 min
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Obrigado, Marlene.
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Sabine Akabayov, PhD
2 mins
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Thanks, Sabine.
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valhalla55
4 mins
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Thanks, Val.
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Fernando Domeniconi
4 mins
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Thanks, Fernando.
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Jack Doughty
5 mins
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mmasur
12 mins
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Thanks, MM.
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Ruth Martínez
15 mins
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Gracias, Ruth.
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Cagdas Karatas
18 mins
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Thanks, Cags.
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Patricia Rosas
21 mins
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agree |
rhandler
25 mins
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Thanks, rhandler.
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NancyLynn
29 mins
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Thanks, Nancy.
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Egil Presttun
34 mins
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Thanks, Egil.
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disagree |
Jennifer Levey
: In many contexts - in reported speech, for example, 'I wish I was...' would be perfectly correct. // Thank you, Robert, for having given the matter further thought. Your example, above, is precisely the kind of context I had in mind.
40 mins
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I think you make a good point regarding *reported speech*: see my comment above.
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Erin DeBell
48 mins
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Thanks, Erin.
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Will Matter
: I agree with your answer and the comment about substandard usage. We also need to recognize that substandard usage (and the popularity thereof) does not, (in any way, shape or form) change the fact that it's WRONG. Popularity does not equal correctness.
52 mins
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I could not agree more. Well said.
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Cristina Santos
58 mins
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Obrigado, Cristina.
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disagree |
R. Alex Jenkins
: Forgive me for being a reprobate, but we simply don't say "I wish I WERE famous", or "I wish I WERE a millionaire", no matter how grammatically correct it is. Sorry. // Are you asking me if I'm religious because I disagree?
1 hr
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*I* forgive you. But can you be at peace with yourself?
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Pham Huu Phuoc
1 hr
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Thanks, Pham.
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orientalhorizon
: Sometimes "correct" are grammarians, but "common" are ordinary people.
1 hr
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Thanks, Ori.
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Phong Le
1 hr
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Thanks, Phong.
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Katarina Peters
: Agree with Will Matter!
1 hr
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Thanks, Katarina.
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Michael Barnett
: I agree with Will. Listen to Loudon Wainwright's insight into this issue:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGIstFnrgCk
1 hr
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Thanks, Michael.
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Jamili Jarouche
2 hrs
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Thanks, JJ.
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Lalit Sati
: Yes, The subjunctive form of the verb "to be"
3 hrs
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Thanks, Lalit.
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Demi Ebrite
4 hrs
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Thanks, Demi.
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Claire Chapman
4 hrs
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Thank you, Claire.
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chaman4723
4 hrs
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Thanks, chaman.
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Catherine Bolton
6 hrs
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agree |
Patricia Townshend (X)
7 hrs
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agree |
Ulrike Kraemer
7 hrs
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Thanks, Ulrike.
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Lumen (X)
8 hrs
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agree |
Suzan Hamer
9 hrs
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Thank you, Suzan.
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Francesca Siotto
10 hrs
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Thank you, Francesca.
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airmailrpl
: I agree with mediamatrix and Richard Jenkins language evolves by popular usage
10 hrs
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It does, but "I wish I was rich" has not gained *enough* acceptance to be considered *correct* English. This is the point. Surely you can think of similar examples in Portuguese of usage that, though widely observed, would still be considered substandard.
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Carlos Quandt
: The "incorrect, substandard" form wins 8:1 on Google. Is it a sign of accepted usage, or it´s just that too many people are uneducated and say things like "I wish I was rich"?... Relax, the times they are a-changin', but I ain't gonna say you'se wrong :)
14 hrs
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I appreciate your generous forbearance in refraining from posting a "disagree". In this case, I really think that the number of Google hits is not a good touchstone.
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Maria José Tavares (X)
14 hrs
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agree |
Caroline Moreno
23 hrs
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Thank you, Caroline.
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Kristin Privette
4 days
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Thanks, Kristin.
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I wish I was rich, I wish I were rich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive
http://www.eslbase.com/grammar/wish
http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/wish/menu.php
Ambos são usados, I wish I were é a forma do subjuntivo. I wish I was é mais informal.
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Note added at 58 mins (2008-11-13 00:48:38 GMT)
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I posted the answer in Portuguese, because it was in English to Portuguese, but basically both forms are cokmmonly used, and some grammar books do recgonize "I wish I was" as correct, as in the last two links I posted.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-11-13 01:00:16 GMT)
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Well, I've been an English teacher for a long time, and you have to make a difference between expressions that are not used in English and expressions that are used but don't fit formal grammar rules. It makes a huge difference for a non native speaker to know the difference between them.
I don't believe an expression that is widely used is wrong, you just have to know when to use it and when not to use it. You ain't gonna talk like that in a job interview, got it? (was this sentence wrong? I bet you all understood it) But that is a way the language is used, and, therefore it isn't wrong...
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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-11-13 16:05:17 GMT)
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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080915183928AA...
Now, that gives you an idea of how the average English speaker thinks. Out of 6 votes, 5 said "I wish he was" would be the correct answer. The only one who said "I wish he were" was the correct answer also pointed out that it is the subjunctive form. Most native English speakers have no idea what subjunctive means. So basically they say "I wish he was" because "he" is singular, and that's it. That's how most people speak.
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Robert Forstag
: Although commonly used, "I wish I was" is incorrect, and therefore falls into the same category as the use of "ain't", "irregardless", and "snuck" (all of which are commonly used, and therefore, in some sense, "accepted", and yet substandard).
17 mins
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It is substandard indeed, but not wrong... In some of the grammar links I posted they say I wish I was can be used
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Jennifer Levey
: Exactly. And there's nothing 'substandard' about the way millions of English-speakers, worldwide, use their native or adopted language.
31 mins
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I see your point, you can't say most English speakers speak a substandar English...
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Will Matter
: 'Substandard' and 'incorrect' can, quite rightfully, be considered as synonymous. // They also say 'Where you is?' & 'I axed (asked) him' & 'I don't know nuthin' and ALL of them are incorrect. Usage does not bestow correctness, there are RULES.
46 mins
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They are not synonymous. But that's a point o view. The thing is, English speakers do say If I was, period.
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R. Alex Jenkins
: Is it WERE or WAS ?
1 hr
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Both are used
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airmailrpl
: - both
10 hrs
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Carlos Quandt
: the second form could be categorized as "informal" or even "nonstandard". Yet, it's widely used, even by educated people.
11 hrs
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It is true, and the reference you posted about descriptive and prescriptive grammar is really interesting.
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Liam Hamilton
: English evolves all teh time - either is now acceptable
13 hrs
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jccantrell
: With Liam here. Grammar specifies subjunctive, but in conversation, virtually everyone here in the USA uses 'was.'
15 hrs
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Flavia Martins dos Santos
15 hrs
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felidaevampire
: According to my English Grammar In Use (which is pretty old, therefore not "infected" with nowadays usage), both forms are correct, in any sentence(s). :)
17 hrs
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I love that book, it is like a grammar Bible for me, but I don't have a copy with me now to post its explanation. But if it says both forms are correct, indeed they are, it is a very respected book...
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Leny Vargas
19 hrs
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Polangmar
1 day 22 hrs
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Egil Presttun
: According to descriptive grammar you're right.
2 days 22 hrs
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It depends!!
If I were you, I'd be careful (I can't be you).
If I was king, you would be my queen (unlikely but not impossible).
The obvious problem here is that it depends on many factors what a speaker considers to be likely, unlikely or impossible.
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Note added at 2 days4 hrs (2008-11-15 03:57:13 GMT)
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To be more explicit on the grammar:
Expressions of will require a subjunctive. They do not state a real fact, but impose a condition. Conditions are categorized on a spectrum from real, such as scientific conditions, to unreal or impossible, as in desire or volition.
So, in the original post, using "I wish I were rich" vs. "I wish I was rich" may also depend on the main clause of the sentence (which was not provided by the asker in our discussion), in either case, to determine whether any subjunctive meaning can be inferred from the context.
In the end, although it is sufficient to say 'was' is less formal (but just as correct) as 'were', it's not the whole story.
In other words, it all depends.
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Note added at 2 days4 hrs (2008-11-15 04:19:09 GMT)
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btw:
My first example above has the subjunctive meaning, thus the 'were', the second, the indicative.
In the 1st, we're not in 'The Matrix', I cannot be you; but, were we downtown, I apparently could because that's just how people speak and grammarians (c.f. the Oxford English Grammar) agree.
In my second example above, there's a more indicative meaning, thus the 'was'. Keep in mind, it could be Prince Harry speaking (perhaps to a girl at a pub?). In any case, it's a possible condition.
Reference comments
Prescriptive vs. Descriptive Grammar
2. Prescriptive grammar: a set of rules and examples dealing with the syntax and word structures of a language, usually intended as an aid to the learning of that language. Prescriptive grammar refers to the structure of a language as certain people think it should be used.
Both kinds of grammar are concerned with rules--but in different ways. Specialists in descriptive grammar (called linguists) study the rules or patterns that underlie our use of words, phrases, clauses, and sentences. On the other hand, prescriptive grammarians (such as most editors and teachers) lay out rules about what they believe to be the “correct” or “incorrect” use of language.
Descriptive grammarians ask the question, “What is English (or another language) like--what are its forms and how do they function in various situations?” By contrast, prescriptive grammarians ask “What should English be like--what forms should people use and what functions should they serve?” (...) Modern grammarians aim to describe rather than prescribe linguistic forms and their uses. Dictionary makers also strive for descriptive accuracy in reporting which words are in use and which senses they carry.
"Prescriptive grammar may tell its users that some expressions are incorrect, contrary to actual contemporary usage by the vast majority of users and writers in the vast majority of cases"
(Synchronic English Linguistics, Paul Georg Meyer)
Examples:
"It is I" or "It's me"?
"I wish I were" or "I wish I was"?
"drive slow" or "drive slowly"?
"the man whom I saw"? or "the man who I saw"?
"the man to whom I spoke" or "the man I spoke to"?
"to go boldly" or "to boldly go"? (split infinitive)?
"I wouldn't think" or "I would think not"?
"between you and me" or "between you and I"?
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Lubain Masum
: Good reference. Useful for non-natives like me.
1 day 16 hrs
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Homenagem...
[UNIT 37 - "If" and "wish" sentences (present)]
c) In "if" sentences and after "wish" you can use "were" instead of "was":
- If I were you, I wouldn't buy that coat. (or 'If I was')
- I'd go out if it weren't raining. (or 'if it wasn't raining')
- I wish my room were larger. (or 'I wish my room was larger.')
É claro que só se pode usar "was" ao invés de "were" quando o sujeito está no singular; caso esteja no plural, precisa-se usar "were".
Vale comentar que minhas professoras da Cultura Inglesa não eram fãs do uso de "was" com "if" e "wish". Elas torciam o nariz quando ouviam estas combinações. O uso de "were" é mais formal/tradicional, mais agradável aos ouvidos (se não dos Ingleses, pelo menos aos meus, mas isso pode ser influência das minhas "teachers").
Tentando ajudar... :)
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Note added at 1 day23 hrs (2008-11-14 22:57:09 GMT)
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[Sorry, LittleBalu (and everyone else).]
OK. English version...
I have posted above a small extract from my English Grammar In Use (it is in English, so there's no need to write everything again). Here's what follows:
Of course we can only write "was" instead of "were" when the subject is singular; if it's plural (we, they...), we must write "were".
It's worth the comment on my teachers from Cultura Inglesa. They were not fond of using "was" in "if" and "wish" sentences. They'd literally twist their noses when they heard such combinations. Using "were" is more traditional/formal, more pleasant to the ears (if not to English ears, at least to mine, but this may be the influence of my teachers).
Trying to help... :)
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Ulrike Kraemer
: This is an English monolingual question. Please post your comments in English so that we all know/understand what you are saying. Thank you.
9 hrs
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You are absolutely right. I do apologize. I hadn't noticed and I had Denise in mind while writing my comment (she does speak Portuguese). Sorry! (missed a "t" in "Portuguese"...):)
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Discussion
I wish I were rich enough to be able to....
I wish wealth would become me so that....
If I were a rich man ... From "The Fiddler On the Roof"