Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

plus condamné à lui-même

English translation:

no longer condemned to itself

Added to glossary by Xia29
Jun 21, 2009 14:41
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

condamné à lui-même

French to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Any ideas on how to translate this expression? I can't find the English equivalent...
Change log

Jun 21, 2009 14:45: Sara M changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 21, 2009:
Indeed! Without fuller context it would have been impossible to appreciate the philosophical nature of the phrase. Unofrtunately, the header was perhaps misleading too. I go with ARt/Literary but Philosophy might have been more helpful than "general conversation".
Xia29 (asker) Jun 21, 2009:
Sorry for not providing more context from the start. I saw the sentence as an expression, but I should have realized that more context was needed. I really appreciate the efforts from all the answerers who took the time to give me their suggestions!
polyglot45 Jun 21, 2009:
agree with Writeaway however professional the asker, to answer properly one needs to get a feel for the whole text or at least a chunk of it. Otherwise it's hit and miss and could have disastrous consequences. I, for one, do not like answering blindfold and, yes, I am a professional, with qualifications to prove it, to boot !!!!
writeaway Jun 21, 2009:
it's clear what 'il' refers to now but it's one of those texts that one really has to see a good chunk of in order to provide valid help. Mood, style, register etc. are all important. where the author is coming from and where s/he is going with this concept all play a role in finding the best translation.
Xia29 (asker) Jun 21, 2009:
Le "lui" de "lui-même" fait référence à "l'instant", il y a donc bien cette idée de l'instant prisonnier de lui-même...
polyglot45 Jun 21, 2009:
given that you have "condamné" and "entraîné" it seems that the only thing they can refer to is the "instant" (from the short excerpt here), unless there is a "he" in the bit before but we cannot know that, can we? When the importance of context
Andreas3002 Jun 21, 2009:
I'll have a go at it... I take a chance... "... the very moment of pain, which is then no longer condemned to itself, carried away by movement..., escapes the vice of "self"
Xia29 (asker) Jun 21, 2009:
More context below: "...l'instant même de la douleur qui alors n'est plus condamné à lui-même, qui entraîné "ailleurs" par le mouvement..., se libère de l'étau du "soi-même",..."

I'm looking for the translation of the expression "être condamné à soi-même", not a literal translation.
writeaway Jun 21, 2009:
agree with polyglot45 it's impossible to help you if we have no idea about how/where/why/when it's being used. please post the full sentence in French.
polyglot45 Jun 21, 2009:
this has to be incomplete condamné à WHAT lui-même - please give context or you may get some strange replies

Proposed translations

+1
7 hrs
Selected

which is then no longer condemned to itself

Emmanuel LEVINAS, 1906-1995. Spouted forth greatly about erotic caresses and got his kicks out of phenomenology.

http://www.ohiolink.edu/etd/send-pdf.cgi?bgsu1112629403

"The caress of a consoler which comes softly in our pain does not promise the end of suffering, does not announce any compensation, and in its very contact, is not concerned with what is to come afterwards in economic time; it concerns the very instant of physical pain, which is then no longer condemned to itself, is transported ‘elsewhere’ by the movement of the caress, and is freed from the vicegrip of ‘oneself,’ finds ‘fresh air,’ a dimension and a future. Or rather, it announces more than a simple future, a future where the present will have the benefit of a recall..."


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Note added at 7 hrs (2009-06-21 21:48:15 GMT)
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French philosopher of Lithuanian origin.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2009-06-21 22:11:21 GMT)
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Extract from 'The Ethics of History", Carr, Flynn, Makkreel

http://books.google.fr/books?id=Yk0f7sjSrvgC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA...



Peer comment(s):

agree Michèle Voyer : I didn't know Levinas was of Lithuanian origin. What a strange mandate, to translate Levinas! It's like the recent request for words taken from a poem by Jean de la Fontaine! The translator is excellent, what is his/her name?
7 hrs
I am not sure that was up on the site in reference. I shall look into that later as I have to rush out right now!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your help. I was not sure I could just keep "condemned to itself" in this context."
6 mins

condemned to himself

I see this expression for the very first time, and for me, taken out of its context, it does not mean anything. I am aware that my proposed translation does not mean anything either, but I am trying to preserve the spirit of it...
Perhaps a little bit of context would be helpful... Does it come from a poem? a symbolic text?...
Note from asker:
Thank you for your suggestion. I picked the answer which gave more explanation, but I appreciate your help.
Peer comment(s):

neutral polyglot45 : as in "garbage in, garbage out" ?
9 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
33 mins

is no longer isolated

the pain is no longer isolated but displaced by movement... is finally freed from the
trap of the self.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your suggestion. I think it translates the idea well. But I can only pick one answer...
Peer comment(s):

agree polyglot45 : I was about to suggest "condemned to isolation"... so...
12 mins
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
13 mins

his own victim

I think so (without context)

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Note added at 19 mins (2009-06-21 15:00:58 GMT)
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Sorry! I did not kwow that a context had been given in the discussion section.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-06-21 15:58:44 GMT)
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Had the original text been clearer, I would have said "it's own victim."
By the way, where was your own answer?
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help. The he/it wasn't important (I could have adapted your answer), but I had to pick another reply which I think was more helpful in this context.
Peer comment(s):

neutral polyglot45 : please tell me where you find the "he" - for I can't see one// well it's not your fault there was no context but it is risky to answer things in a vacuum - la preuve !// it is an "it" as it happens - that was my point
5 mins
what he? my answer stands up. victim de lui meme/his own victim or prisoner
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
French term (edited): condamné à être lui-même

condemned to be himself

L'expression française correcte est "condamné à ÊTRE lui-même".

Et l'équivalent anglais est "condemned to BE himself".
Note from asker:
Thank you for your suggestion. Like all the other answers, it helped me reach a decision, and I really appreciate the effort
Peer comment(s):

neutral Michèle Voyer : Arnold méfiez vous, les gardiens de la révolution veillent, vous êtes tombé dans le piège, ce n'est pas une personne c'est l'instant, voir les sujets de discussion!
1 hr
Oui, mais je ne suis pas le seul sur la mauvaise route. Bonne fin de weekend !
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

the very moment of this pain, no longer confined to itself

Hello,

Others feel it, too?


The grace of the redeemed soul is not confined to itself ; it flows out to others. ...

books.google.com/books?id=s9EUAAAAYAAJ...

Note from asker:
Thank you for your help. I picked another answer in this context, but your suggestion could be helpful to others in different instances.
Something went wrong...
21 hrs

left imprisoned within itself

Reading the passage (thanks to Writeaway), the running metaphor involves imprisonment and liberation in a movement from one place to another, from within the self to outside in the fresh air.
Imprisoned seems a good option therefore.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your suggestion. I think that's the idea, but I had to pick another answer.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

32 mins
Reference:

actual context

(induit par la compassion)

« La caresse du consolateur qui effleure dans la douleur ne promet pas la fin de la souffrance, n’annonce pas de compensation, ne concerne pas, dans son contact, l’après du temps économique ; elle a trait à l’instant même de la douleur qui alors n’est plus condamné à lui-même, qui entraîné ‘ailleurs’ par le mouvement de la caresse, se libère de l’étau du ‘soi-même’, se trouve de ‘l’air frais’, une dimension et un avenir. Ou, plutôt, elle annonce plus qu’un simple avenir, elle annonce un avenir où le présent bénéficiera d’un rappel. Cet effet de la compassion, des plus connus, est habituel- lement posé comme le fait premier de la psychologie, par lui on explique. En fait, il est infiniment mystérieux. Le peine ne se rachète pas. Il n’y a pas de justice qui puisse la réparer.

On pense généralement que cette réparation est impossible dans le temps et que l’éternité seule, où les instants distincts dans le temps sont indiscernables, est le lieu du salut. Ce recours à l’éternité n’est pas sans témoigner de l’exigence impossible faite au salut, qui doit non seulement donner compensation, mais concerner l’instant même de la douleur. L’analyse du temps économique, extérieur au sujet, n’escamote-t-elle pas la structure essentielle du temps par laquelle le présent n’est pas seulement indemnisé mais ressuscité ? L’avenir n’est-il pas avant tout une résurrection du présent ? »

http://www.initiationphilo.fr/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=55
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree polyglot45 : voilà qui éclaire enfin ma lanterne
9 mins
Something went wrong...
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