David Knowles Oct 12, 2010:

"Он" (и косвенные падежи) означает Продавець и "оно" (и косвенные падежи) означает Покупатель. [Замечание перевочика: по-русски нельзя использовать такой подход. Поэтому всегда использовано "Продавец" и "Покупатель".]
No doubt that is bad and inelegant Russian, but that's what I'd put.

Mikhail Kropotov Oct 12, 2010:

I think you should inform your client about this ...and ask them for guidance.

As a translator, you're not producing an agreement that will conform to Russian legal standards - you're producing a translation of an agreement governed by the laws of another country (I don't know which one). Therefore, you should reproduce its peculiarities (for lack of a better word) in full. The resulting translation can sound or look more or less weird from the standpoint of grammar, but it will be a faithful one as long as it accurately conveys the meaning of the source.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

How do you find this solution of the translation (in order not to leave it emply):
"...термины "он" и "его" используются для обозначения ПРОДАВЦА и/или ПОКУПАТЕЛЯ в зависимости от контекста",
and where "he/it issue" appears I'll use just Продавец/Покупатель.

Mikhail Kropotov Oct 12, 2010:

I know it will look kind of weird either you slice it, but the way it's done in the source is just as weird! A company isn't referred to as a 'he' in English.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

There is another term for "Компания" already used in this contract (referred to a third entity), so I should be really careful using only "продавец" и "покупатель" and the pronouns in this case.

Deborah Kolosova Oct 12, 2010:

But if they're both companies or organizations, that doesn't really work well.

Mikhail Kropotov Oct 12, 2010:

But... Организация - она. Компания - она. I think you can make a case for it with careful wording.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

The English pronouns do not seem to be chosen arbitrarily, they somehow reflect the sense of the pronoun, while in Russian it is absurd to refer "она" to "Продавец". (в конце концов остановлюсь на "продавщице":))

Mikhail Kropotov Oct 12, 2010:

"Yes, the buyer is a company too."
If the English pronouns were chosen arbitrarily, why not do the same in Russian? Продавец - он, Покупатель - она. Или Продавец - он, Покупатель - они. Either does the trick.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

David, the point is that it seems untranslatable (he vs it referred to a company is the same nown - она, or оно (юридическое лицо).
Deborah, the impression is that it's written by a native speaker, and considering the length of the contract (17000 words), they probably wanted to make it as complex and obscure as possible. So I have to follow the general spirit! Yes, the buyer is a company too.

Deborah Kolosova Oct 12, 2010:

That is weird! How can they use "he" to refer to a company? That doesn't make any sense in English! Was the text written by a native speaker? Maybe the writer just arbitrarily assigned different pronouns to the buyer and seller to avoid the problem of referring to both as "it" (which is absurd, of course, but you never know what strange things people will do). Is the buyer a company too?

David Knowles Oct 12, 2010:

I must be prescient! If it's a separate clause, you have to translate it and add a translator's note. It's very awkward, but the main text of the contract will be clear. This confusion of pronouns is built into the fabric of our languages! You can also see it in translations of деньги where Russians are apt to use the pronoun "they" because they "feel" money as plural.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

Well, the Seller ("he") is a company, so this distinction seems a bit weird to me.
Another point is that this is a separate clause of the contract, so omission causes a "hole", but I don't think I can leave it as it is in the target text...

David Knowles Oct 12, 2010:

What if this is a separate numbered paragraph? In that case, I think you have to translate it, and put a note to the effect that you have replaced it and him by the appropriate noun.

David Knowles Oct 12, 2010:

Pronoun confusion In English, there is no confusion, because "it" has to refer to an inanimate object.
By contrast, when I was translating something about an employee (работник), who was a woman, I found it extremely confusing that she was referred to as "he"!

Deborah Kolosova Oct 12, 2010:

The contrast in English is that the Seller is apparently a physical person (animate), while the Buyer is apparently a legal entity (inanimate). There is no such distinction in Russian, so the pronoun distinction gets lost, and playing games with the nouns to find one which can be referred to with a different pronoun doesn't make sense; the text specifically refers to a Buyer and a Seller.

Rimma Grishmanovskaya (X) (asker) Oct 12, 2010:

I agree with David and Deborah, as the Seller and the Buyer may be in this case either a physical person and a legal entity, so using pronouns may cause confusion. This contrasting in English is still unclear for me (yes, it may help to avoid the repetitions, but causes confusion as well).

David Knowles Oct 12, 2010:

Surely you would need to put оно for общество, but then oblique cases are ambiguous (его, ему итд). You probably have to use substantives throughout (Покупатель/Продавец).