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Jan 16, 2016 10:46
8 yrs ago
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French term

rien n'est jamais gagné à l'avance

French to English Social Sciences General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters colloquial expression used in a govt/politics doc.
This appears in a quite formal document describing government policy and written by a senior political figure in a Francophone West African country. It reads to me as a deliberate change of register, and I've suggested "no game is won before it's played" but the proofreader would prefer a literal translation.

Any thoughts or alternative suggestions very welcome!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +7 the race is never won until it's over
4 +5 nothing should be taken for granted
3 +1 There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip
4 cannot know what the future holds
4 It's not over till it's over
3 nobody knows (or "can know") what the future holds in store
3 success/winning is never granted
2 nothing is ever won in advance
Change log

Jan 16, 2016 12:26: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Government / Politics" to "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "colloquial expression used in a govt/politics doc. "

Jan 18, 2016 20:58: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "rien n\\\'est jamais gagné à l\\\'avance" to "rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance"

Discussion

DLyons (asker) Jan 18, 2016:
@all Thanks for the excellent suggestions. I'm going to go with the majority view in one of two camps - the slightly metaphorical or the more literal one. Either are perfectly valid IMHO so I'm rather torn. But, mainly because this particular proofreader gave me a lot of grief, I'm choosing the suggestion closest to my own original one.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 17, 2016:
@David I am 100% with Philippa here. The proofreader wants something more literal? I think that your suggestion of "no game is won before it's played" is already literal. I prefer Carol's version with "race" and "over". That works well in cotnext and is a standard rendering. Anything more literal would become a word for word translation and you'd be moving away from a natural result. Proffreaders often make good suggestions and improve a piece of writing. However, they don't have infused science either. I would look no further than Carol's suggestion and affirm that anything more literal would be unnatural.
Lara Barnett Jan 16, 2016:
Agree with Philippa I agree with Philippa. There is obviously no need to be over-creative here, but politicians use all sorts of metaphors and figures of speech when they talk. It is this sort of thing that adds to the beauty of the way some of them speak IMO. I don't believe it would be out of context to find a relevant metaphorical expression.
DLyons (asker) Jan 16, 2016:
@Philippa They start by describing their qualifications for being involved.
"Toutes ces expériences riches et variées m’ont beaucoup apporté. Mais comme rien n’est jamais gagné à l'avance, il faut continuellement se battre pour s’affirmer ... et continuer à initier des actions qui font la différence."
polyglot45 Jan 16, 2016:
it's not really over till the fat lady sings
Philippa Smith Jan 16, 2016:
The proofreader is indeed talking rubbish, why would you want something literal? What are the previous and following sentences? I've got another suggestion, but it depends on the immediate context...
Peter LEGUIE Jan 16, 2016:
Asker and pairs I have also thought of "No issue is certain in advance" following a deeper reading of the full context;
Chakib Roula Jan 16, 2016:
@Peter
Pretty relevant note.
Thanks
DLyons (asker) Jan 16, 2016:
@polyglot45 Good point!
Peter LEGUIE Jan 16, 2016:
Chakib A very common expression in English is "granted" in which "in advance" is not really necessary (or possibly "to be taken for granted").
polyglot45 Jan 16, 2016:
don't count your chickens.... before they're hatched.
There are no certainties in this life.
In political terms, I don't see the change of register - it's a thing politicians often say (and others). It implies that if their policies don't produce the goods, then it is not their fault but that of forces beyond their control.
PS - the proofreader is talking nonsense - your translation is almost too literal for me!
Nothing is written in advance - nobody knows what the future will hold

Proposed translations

+7
37 mins
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance
Selected

the race is never won until it's over

if you're looking for a fairly literal translation, this is a pretty close metaphor

Other variations can replace "race" with "match", "game", "battle", etc, etc

A few examples:

The race is never won until it's over. Out in the cold. Identity Crisis, I'm going through my Identity Crisis Identity Crisis, I'm going through my Identity Crisis



Identity Crisis - Sweet | Lyrics | AllMusic
www.allmusic.com/song/identity-crisis-mt0003379113/lyrics



4 Nov 2014 - “The lads have seen with some pain in recent weeks that a game is never won until it's over,” said Compton. “But that lesson has stood them in ...



A successful start for Safran | Safran Sailing Team
www.safran-
sailingteam.com/media/20131107_successful-start-safran



7 Nov 2013 - But an ocean race is never won until it's over. The first task that lies ahead is getting out of the English Channel in the best position possible, ...



Sweet - Identity Crisis lyrics - AllofLyric.com
https://alloflyric.com/en/song/Sweet/Identity-Crisis-398340....



Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher
5 mins
thanks Gallagy!
agree Lara Barnett
20 mins
thanks Lara!
agree Louisa Tchaicha
38 mins
thanks Louisa!
agree Victoria Britten
55 mins
thanks Victoria!
agree James A. Walsh
2 hrs
Thanks James!
agree Wendy Streitparth
3 hrs
Thanks Wendy!
neutral Chakib Roula : Dear Carol, I have to give up the race as the game looks a bit lost in advance.
5 hrs
er, so what is your point, and how is it relevant to my suggestion in particular? Sorry if I appear a little obtuse…!
disagree Daryo : this is not a literal translation - there is no "racing" in this ST // "gagner" is here a synonym for "réussir" / "atteindre son but" in implementing desired policies NOT for "winning a competition/race" [who would the State be competing against?]
7 hrs
Now who's being literal?!! You fail to take into account that I mentioned that the word "race" can be replaced by any number of other words to fit the situation. This is just a metaphor and metaphors are never meant to be taken absolutely literally
agree Noni Gilbert Riley : Completely agree. Shame we can't the fat lady in though!
7 hrs
Thanks Noni! Yes, shame about the fat lady!
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
8 hrs
thanks 1045!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Carol. See note above."
+1
22 mins
French term (edited): rien n'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip

:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_many_a_slip_twixt_the_...

not sure if it fits the context though!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2016-01-16 11:11:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is no easy bet, or no easy feat..
Note from asker:
Thanks Louisa. Certainly works in some contexts.
Peer comment(s):
agree Noni Gilbert Riley : Probably doesn't fit Donal's bill, but a great expression. At least it'll come up in the Glossary.
7 hrs
:) that's what I thought, thanks!
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

cannot know what the future holds

A suggestion in the light of the context and tone of the entire sentence, which is quite personal (first person), it sounds like s/he is talking about his or her own experience of the initiatives in question
I read the meaning as: the initiatives/policies have been very productive, but there is no guarantee that they will carry on being so in the future, so we have to keep putting in lots of effort...

So you could use "since we cannot know what the future holds..." or "since one..." for a more formal style.

Alternative:
since nothing is set in concrete



Note from asker:
Thanks Philippa. Clearly a possibility but I'm going to go with the majority view.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

nobody knows (or "can know") what the future holds in store

with the added context, this is what I would say
Note from asker:
Thanks polyglot45. Also, clearly a possibility and I totally agree with your comment above, but I'm going to go with the majority view.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

nothing is ever won in advance

garners the odd google
Note from asker:
Thanks Jonathan. Probably closest to my own original suggestion - so that can't be bad :-)
Something went wrong...
2 hrs
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

It's not over till it's over

Amongst many other good options...
Note from asker:
Thanks Robert. That's a good phrase that I wouldn't have thought of but I'm going to go with the majority view.
Something went wrong...
7 hrs
French term (edited): rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

success/winning is never granted

I disagree with your proofreader, but something simple along these lines might help.
Note from asker:
Thanks Beatriz. A nice suggestion that even a rather eccentric proofreader could hardly disagree with.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : yes for "success"
29 mins
Thanks Daryo - Bea
Something went wrong...
+5
7 hrs

nothing should be taken for granted

one more variant ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-01-16 18:48:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

nothing should be ever taken for granted

IOW however you think your policies are the best, don't presume that you will be able to implement them exactly as you want without facing any obstacles or having to make serious efforts

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-01-16 18:51:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or closer to the ST:

success shouldn't be taken for granted
Note from asker:
Thanks Daryo. See note above.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michele Fauble : Fits the context.
49 mins
Thanks!
agree Peter LEGUIE : Yes, as I suggested.
1 hr
Merci!
agree Yolanda Broad
6 hrs
Thanks!
agree Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
19 hrs
Thanks!
agree katsy : fits the context
22 hrs
yes, it's not really a one-fits-all solution. Thanks!
Something went wrong...
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