Aug 27, 2017 18:58
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
United Kingdom
à l’adresse de
Non-PRO
French to English
Law/Patents
Construction / Civil Engineering
Construction contract (Swiss):
"À condition que le Maître d’Ouvrage assure un entretien correct à partir de la réception le délai de prescription des défauts affectant les Travaux sera étendu à 10 ans. L’Entreprise Générale sera responsable de demander une offre correspondante à l’adresse du Maître d’Ouvrage."
I'm a bit confused by this provision. Does the latter part mean that the contractor will be responsible for asking for 'a corresponding offer' from the project manager (and if so what could that mean?) and should I just translate 'à l’adresse de' as 'from'?
Thanks in advance.
"À condition que le Maître d’Ouvrage assure un entretien correct à partir de la réception le délai de prescription des défauts affectant les Travaux sera étendu à 10 ans. L’Entreprise Générale sera responsable de demander une offre correspondante à l’adresse du Maître d’Ouvrage."
I'm a bit confused by this provision. Does the latter part mean that the contractor will be responsible for asking for 'a corresponding offer' from the project manager (and if so what could that mean?) and should I just translate 'à l’adresse de' as 'from'?
Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | ask for a ... offer from // send a request for a ... offer addressed to ... |
Daryo
|
| 4 | to the client's address |
Johannes Gleim
|
| 4 -1 | for the benefit of |
philgoddard
|
Change log
Aug 27, 2017 20:40: Rachel Fell changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
PRO (1): Daryo
Non-PRO (3): mchd, writeaway, Rachel Fell
When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.
How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:
An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)
A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).
Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.
When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.
* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.
Proposed translations
15 hrs
French term (edited):
demander une offre ... à l’adresse de
Selected
ask for a ... offer from // send a request for a ... offer addressed to ...
L’Entreprise Générale sera responsable de demander une offre correspondante à l’adresse du Maître d’Ouvrage.
=
it will be the obligation of the Main contractor to ask for a corresponding offer [i.e. offer concerning this remedial work] from the Client / Project owner
or literally:
.... to send a request for for a corresponding offer addressed to the Client / Project owner
This being written by people in the know/in that trade for other people in that same trade, quite a lot is simply left implied as "being blindingly obvious" [to those in that trade, that is ...]
this sentence is about a situation where within the warranty period (here 10 years after handover) some remedial work has to be done.
As the main contractor is the one that will have to pay for this remedial work (as per the guaranty mentioned in the other related question http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/construction_civ... the main contractor has to be offered "first refusal" on this remedial work - to be able to decide whether do it himself for free instead or to pay for someone else to do it.
So the main contractor is entitled to request an "offer" from the Client/Project owner "corresponding to" (= regarding) the remedial work required i.e. a binding information on how much the project owner is willing to pay for the remedial work.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2017-08-28 10:54:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
for free or to pay for
=
it will be the obligation of the Main contractor to ask for a corresponding offer [i.e. offer concerning this remedial work] from the Client / Project owner
or literally:
.... to send a request for for a corresponding offer addressed to the Client / Project owner
This being written by people in the know/in that trade for other people in that same trade, quite a lot is simply left implied as "being blindingly obvious" [to those in that trade, that is ...]
this sentence is about a situation where within the warranty period (here 10 years after handover) some remedial work has to be done.
As the main contractor is the one that will have to pay for this remedial work (as per the guaranty mentioned in the other related question http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/construction_civ... the main contractor has to be offered "first refusal" on this remedial work - to be able to decide whether do it himself for free instead or to pay for someone else to do it.
So the main contractor is entitled to request an "offer" from the Client/Project owner "corresponding to" (= regarding) the remedial work required i.e. a binding information on how much the project owner is willing to pay for the remedial work.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2017-08-28 10:54:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
for free or to pay for
Note from asker:
| Great, thank you! All is now clear. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
33 mins
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
122
for the benefit of
I don't know what they mean by "une offre correspondante", however.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: besides the small detail that it won't fit, in actual fact it's the other way round - all this is "for the benefit" of "L’Entreprise Générale", to prevent "le Maître d’Ouvrage" from overcharging for remedial work!
15 hrs
|
|
Where do you get "overcharging for remedial work" from? This is a translation website, not creative fiction.
|
25 mins
Johannes Gleim
Works in field
40 years Engineer, 20 years translations
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
189
French term (edited):
à l’adresse du maître d’ouvrage
to the client's address
maître d'ouvrage n. client ; contracting authority [Bus.]
maître d'ouvrage n. project owner
maître de l'ouvrage n. client [Bus.]
http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-anglais/Maître d’Ou...
maître d'ouvrage nm (responsable de projet) client, customer n
contracting authority, public contracting authority n
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/Maître d’Ouvrage
« L’Entreprise Générale » est le “General Contractor” en Anglais. Il est donc l’intermédiaire entre le Maître d’Ouvrage » et l’entrepreneur pour le métier est agi en conséquence pour le maître d’ouvrage. Il demande d’adresser l’offre pour la remise en ordre au maître d’ouvrage, qui le juge.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2017-08-28 15:12:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In order to clarify the terms I copy excerpts from Wikipedia, too.
La maîtrise d'ouvrage (MOA), aussi dénommée maître d'ouvrage est l'entité porteuse d'un besoin, définissant l'objectif d'un projet, son calendrier et le budget consacré à ce projet. Le résultat attendu du projet est la réalisation d'un produit, appelé ouvrage.
La maîtrise d'ouvrage est à l'origine de l'idée de base du projet et représente, à ce titre, les utilisateurs finaux à qui l'ouvrage est destiné.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise_d'ouvrage
linked to
An owner builder is an individual or family that takes charge of the remodeling or new construction of their home.
In Britain or Australia, this individual or family is often referred to as a self-builder. In America, owner builders are defined primarily by their willingness to become personally committed to coordination and control of designing and building for their residential project.
An owner builder is a homeowner that is contracting their own homebuilding or other construction project rather than hiring a licensed general contractor. Owner builders manage the building schedule and take on all the responsibility and liability that would normally fall on the general contractor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner_builder
La maîtrise d'œuvre (souvent abrégée MOE ou MŒ ou Moe ou moe) est la personne ou l'entité choisie par le maître d'ouvrage pour la réalisation, soit la mise en œuvre d'un projet dans les conditions de délais, de qualité ainsi que de coûts fixés par ledit projet, le tout conformément à un contrat ou un cahier des charges.
Pour la partie relative au marché de travaux, la maîtrise d’œuvre désigne une personne physique ou morale qui, pour sa compétence, peut être chargée par le maître de l'ouvrage :
• de l'assister pour la consultation des entreprises et pour la conclusion du ou des marchés avec le ou les entrepreneurs ;
• de diriger l'exécution du ou des marchés de travaux ;
• d'assister le maître de l'ouvrage pour la réception des ouvrages et le règlement des comptes avec les entrepreneurs.
Il est le plus souvent utilisé en conjonction avec le terme maître d'ouvrage qui désigne le propriétaire de l'ouvrage ou commanditaire des travaux (État, collectivités, entreprises publiques, maître d'ouvrage privé), et qui exécute la passation des marchés.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise_d'œuvre
linke to
A general contractor (main contractor, prime contractor)[1] is responsible for the day-to-day oversight of a construction site, management of vendors and trades, and the communication of information to all involved parties throughout the course of a building project.[
The general contractor is a manager, and possibly a tradesman, employed by the client on the advice of the architect, engineer or the architectural technologist or the client him/herself if acting as the manager. A general contractor is responsible for the overall coordination of a project.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_contractor
maître d'ouvrage n. project owner
maître de l'ouvrage n. client [Bus.]
http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-anglais/Maître d’Ou...
maître d'ouvrage nm (responsable de projet) client, customer n
contracting authority, public contracting authority n
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/Maître d’Ouvrage
« L’Entreprise Générale » est le “General Contractor” en Anglais. Il est donc l’intermédiaire entre le Maître d’Ouvrage » et l’entrepreneur pour le métier est agi en conséquence pour le maître d’ouvrage. Il demande d’adresser l’offre pour la remise en ordre au maître d’ouvrage, qui le juge.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2017-08-28 15:12:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In order to clarify the terms I copy excerpts from Wikipedia, too.
La maîtrise d'ouvrage (MOA), aussi dénommée maître d'ouvrage est l'entité porteuse d'un besoin, définissant l'objectif d'un projet, son calendrier et le budget consacré à ce projet. Le résultat attendu du projet est la réalisation d'un produit, appelé ouvrage.
La maîtrise d'ouvrage est à l'origine de l'idée de base du projet et représente, à ce titre, les utilisateurs finaux à qui l'ouvrage est destiné.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise_d'ouvrage
linked to
An owner builder is an individual or family that takes charge of the remodeling or new construction of their home.
In Britain or Australia, this individual or family is often referred to as a self-builder. In America, owner builders are defined primarily by their willingness to become personally committed to coordination and control of designing and building for their residential project.
An owner builder is a homeowner that is contracting their own homebuilding or other construction project rather than hiring a licensed general contractor. Owner builders manage the building schedule and take on all the responsibility and liability that would normally fall on the general contractor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner_builder
La maîtrise d'œuvre (souvent abrégée MOE ou MŒ ou Moe ou moe) est la personne ou l'entité choisie par le maître d'ouvrage pour la réalisation, soit la mise en œuvre d'un projet dans les conditions de délais, de qualité ainsi que de coûts fixés par ledit projet, le tout conformément à un contrat ou un cahier des charges.
Pour la partie relative au marché de travaux, la maîtrise d’œuvre désigne une personne physique ou morale qui, pour sa compétence, peut être chargée par le maître de l'ouvrage :
• de l'assister pour la consultation des entreprises et pour la conclusion du ou des marchés avec le ou les entrepreneurs ;
• de diriger l'exécution du ou des marchés de travaux ;
• d'assister le maître de l'ouvrage pour la réception des ouvrages et le règlement des comptes avec les entrepreneurs.
Il est le plus souvent utilisé en conjonction avec le terme maître d'ouvrage qui désigne le propriétaire de l'ouvrage ou commanditaire des travaux (État, collectivités, entreprises publiques, maître d'ouvrage privé), et qui exécute la passation des marchés.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise_d'œuvre
linke to
A general contractor (main contractor, prime contractor)[1] is responsible for the day-to-day oversight of a construction site, management of vendors and trades, and the communication of information to all involved parties throughout the course of a building project.[
The general contractor is a manager, and possibly a tradesman, employed by the client on the advice of the architect, engineer or the architectural technologist or the client him/herself if acting as the manager. A general contractor is responsible for the overall coordination of a project.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_contractor
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: that's the idea, but it makes it clearer if you look at the whole sentence
1 day 5 hrs
|
Discussion
Ahem ...
all that is part of "creative fiction" - if you haven't got a clue about the usual life-cycle of a building project.
Money/politics talk and belles-lettres are two different worlds! In any language ...
Some of the surrounding text might help.
Linguee. Remember that Linguee enables you to see how others have translated the term. It is not an online dictionary. These two terms are very commonly confused.
So I think already if you get that bit right, it might help to make sense of the rest!
Note to that the MOE can sometimes in reality be the same person as the 'main contractor' or 'Entreprise Générale' — though clearly not in your case here!