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sauts de balles

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles

English translation:

it came out of left field

Added to glossary by Wyley Powell
Aug 18, 2006 16:40
17 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles

French to English Art/Literary Cinema, Film, TV, Drama movie synopsis
Brief description of Truffaut's "Les 400 coups" which "fit l'effet d'un chien dans un jeu de quilles tant à sa sortie qu'à sa présentation au Festival de Cannes."

The image is clear but can't think of an English equivalent. (Fish out of water?)

Thanks for suggestions.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 it came out of left field
4 +5 comment - NFG
3 +4 went down like a lead balloon
3 +4 it was unexpected. caught people by surprise.
3 +2 like a porcupine in a balloon factory
5 NFG
5 -1 like a bull in a china shop
3 To turn up at the wrong moment.
4 -1 like a bull in a china shop
3 it stole the show
3 caught people/the public unawares

Discussion

CMJ_Trans (X) Aug 18, 2006:
if the film was acclaimed - then maybe "caused a stir", did not go unnoticed, created a few waves.....
Sandra Petch Aug 18, 2006:
Strange... your sentence suggests the film didn't get a good reception and yet (Wikipedia) "The film was widely acclaimed, winning numerous awards, including the Best Director award at the 1959 Cannes Film Festival...."
Marion Sadoux Aug 18, 2006:
I think that whatever idiom you go for, it must not have any strong negative connotations such as clumsiness or heaviness, this just means that it was unlike anything else there and that it caused wonderment and surprise.
Sandra Petch Aug 18, 2006:
Isn't there something about "un éléphant dans un magasin de porcelaine" for the bull in a china shop? Which would be more about being clumsy anyway... The Petit Robert defines the "dog and skittles" expression as meaning "mal à propos"...

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

it came out of left field

just to be a little bit more jazzy! (I like a bit of jazz...)

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Note added at 20 hrs (2006-08-19 13:35:59 GMT)
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or maybe it caught everyone off-guard or off-balance...
Peer comment(s):
agree Sandra Petch : Good one!
3 mins
agree Gina W : agree - good one!
10 hrs
neutral writeaway : out in left field means eccentric or odd. Les 400 coups was not an off-the-walls film.
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Sincere thanks to all who replied. Tough choice but I finally went with "it came out of left field" because I think that best conveys the meaning. Unfortunately, the imagery had to be sacrificed."
-1
5 mins

like a bull in a china shop

.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Alanna Wilson-Duff : see note above
23 mins
disagree Sandra C. : sorry; no. Not here :-)
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 mins

To turn up at the wrong moment.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Sandra C. : yes, I think it's the right meaning, but there must be an equivalent expressions in EN
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
6 mins

like a bull in a china shop

Like a bull in a china shop, Comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles, Like a dog in a game of ninepins. Like father, like son. Tel père, tel fils. ...
french.about.com/library/express/blex_cliche.htm - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

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Note added at 8 mins (2006-08-18 16:48:36 GMT)
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Les proverbes offrent en général de parfaites illustrations de I'équivalence: "like a bull in a china shop: comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles"; ...
www.accurapid.com/Journal/32metodos.htm - 64k - Cached - Similar pages
Peer comment(s):
neutral Alanna Wilson-Duff : see note above
22 mins
thanks Alanna and in agreement :)
disagree Sandra C. : sorry; no. Not here :-)
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
16 mins

went down like a lead balloon

Re my note above :-)

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Note added at 55 mins (2006-08-18 17:35:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Came like a bolt from the blue" - suggesting surprise, something unexpected...
Peer comment(s):
agree Julie Goupille : Usually this would be translated, "Like a bull..." but in this context, went down like a lead balloon expresses the idea of it bein a "total bust"
3 mins
Thanks, though I think I'm barking up the wrong tree (to keep the dog image!)
agree CMJ_Trans (X) : much more apposite
7 mins
Thanks but I think I'm on the wrong track.
agree Alanna Wilson-Duff : yeah, I tend to agree with you Sandra. Somehow a bull in a china shop somehow clashes with a film being badly received. Where's the awkwardness? the destruction? The lead ballon really says 'flop' as well as having good imagery.
9 mins
Thanks, but I don't think this is it. I've made a new suggestion!
agree David Hollywood : best suggestion so far :)
16 mins
Thanks David but I think it's off-course!
disagree Marion Sadoux : This would imply a negative reception, a flop, which is not what the original sentence says or infers
19 mins
See my note above prior to your comment
neutral writeaway : historically hard to imagine: In 1959, Truffaut made his first feature, Les 400 Coups, for which he won Best Director at the Cannes film festival. http://www.ruspoli.com/film/essays/julesandjim.html
35 mins
Again, see my note above prior to your comment (and new suggestion) :-)
agree Gina W : sounds good
11 hrs
neutral Sandra C. : surprise, yes, except that it has to imply the notion of being out of place as well :-)
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
56 mins

it was unexpected. caught people by surprise.

It was one of the first films of the Nouvelle Vague. It wasn't the sort of films audiences were used to seeing. I think it's in this direction. Certainly not negative.
Peer comment(s):
agree CMJ_Trans (X) : broke with tradition/caught people on the hop
4 mins
agree Sarah Downing : This is definitely more like it. We actually studied this one at uni and, if I remember rightly, it caused quite a sensation - the protagonist, Antoine Doinel, was a neglected child.
1 hr
neutral Alanna Wilson-Duff : I agree with sarah- caused quite a sensation
17 hrs
there are lots of ways to say this. the idea is that is was a positive event and nothing negative about it. just the name Truffaut would make negative comments virtually impossible ;-)
neutral Sandra C. : surprise, yes, except that it has to imply the notion of being out of place as well IMO :-)// because it is so unlike anything that came before it; that's why it would seem "out of place'
19 hrs
how can a film be out of place at the Cannes Film Festival?
agree suezen : caught (many) people on the hop
21 hrs
agree df49f (X)
1 day 1 hr
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

like a porcupine in a balloon factory

Maybe still a bit too negative-- but at least it's a little less violent than the bull/china shop scenario!

Sometimes used with "...as nervous as a...", but can also be used to describe something that is unwelcome or out of place.
Peer comment(s):
agree Gina W : sounds good, too
10 hrs
agree Francis Marche : My favorite - the low-budget film punctured inflated film-making standards to cause a sensation.
2 days 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

it stole the show

a bit further from the original, but another possible metaphore
Something went wrong...
+5
48 mins

comment - NFG

While I agree with others that "like a bull ..." could be the equivalent, it does have connotations of clumsiness or even violence. The intention of the perpetrator is different too: I imagine a bull panicking in a shop and running rampage, whereas a dog would be excited and be having fun among the skittles ...

For info, some explanations of the expression :

Venir, arriver « comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles » c’est un peu arriver « comme un cheveu sur la soupe » ! signifiant l’incongruité d’une arrivée à contre temps, très mal à propos, pêchant contre toute espèce de règle…
D’où sûrement, qu’être reçu « comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles » fait que l’on se voit rabroué, voire renvoyé d’où l’on vient !
http://www.communicanis.com/chiendansunjeudequilles.html

comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles. Mal à propos, de manière incongrue. Personne ne l’attendait, il est arrivé comme un chien dans un jeu de quille. ...
fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/comme_un_chien_dans_un_jeu_de_quilles

If you have any more context it might help pin down exactly what the author may have intended ...

For the moment I can only think of very prosaic translations ...



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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:47:25 GMT)
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Depending on intended meaning (un unexpected burden that spoils the life/fun of others?), it could possibly be "like a cuckoo in the nest".

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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:52:55 GMT)
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was/came as a turn-up for the books?

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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:54:31 GMT)
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Turn-up for the books, a - piece of good fortune, usually unexpected ... fortune and sometimes an act of effrontery giving rise to surprise or disapproval. ...
users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/sayingst.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Sandra Petch : "Personne ne l’attendait"... this might be a good line to follow...
2 mins
agree Marion Sadoux
32 mins
agree Ingeborg Gowans (X) : this seems to be more apt here than the idea of "the bull in the china shop" which first came to my mind as well
2 hrs
agree Sandra C. : great explanation :-)
19 hrs
agree suezen : it came as a breath of fresh air
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

NFG

IMO, un chien dans un jeu de quille means that it's out of place, it doesn't fit in, it doesn't fit with the situation. A misfit. It doesn't belong there. It's too different from the other movies at the festival, etc.
Or something like that.
So ok, that's the meaning.
Now, for an equivalent expression... I can't think of anything!

Good luck!
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : then why did it walk away with the prize? of course it 'fit in' but was the beginning of the Nouvelle Vague and there was an element of surprise.
8 mins
It WAS a surprise, no question about it, but it was so unlike anything that came before it that it seemed "out of place". In any case, that is the innuendo of the FR expression used in the original text.
Something went wrong...
3 days 1 hr

caught people/the public unawares

Source: Canadian Gage Dictionary

adv. 1. without being expected; by surprise

(Just an idea, after reading all of your remarks and suggestions)
Something went wrong...
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