Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
beurre pâtissier
English translation:
concentrated butter
French term
beurre pâtissier
4 +5 | concentrated butter | Mark Nathan |
4 | premium butter | Lorraine Dubuc |
4 | patissier butter | Yvonne Gallagher |
3 | high fat content butter for baking | Tony M |
Nov 16, 2013 20:54: Tony M changed "Field (specific)" from "Food & Drink" to "Cooking / Culinary"
Nov 30, 2013 09:46: Mark Nathan Created KOG entry
Non-PRO (1): Yvonne Gallagher
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Proposed translations
concentrated butter
neutral |
Tony M
: I don't like the term 'concentrated', and as W/A's ref. indicates, this may CONTAIN 'concentrated butter', but that's not what it actually IS. / Sadly, Rachel's ref. refers to ACTUAL concentrated butter, NOT this stuff!
42 mins
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agree |
Rachel Fell
: despite dearth of context: http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/snacks/sainsbury-s-butter-brioche-ro...
4 hrs
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agree |
writeaway
: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/consleg/2005/R/0... http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
14 hrs
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agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: C'est bien çà en français.....
14 hrs
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agree |
mchd
: cela correspond bien à la définition de ce beurre
15 hrs
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agree |
GuillaumeT (X)
: EU regulations use "concentrated butter". http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE... vs. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE...
1 day 14 hrs
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premium butter
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Note added at 4 heures (2013-11-16 23:54:43 GMT)
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For those of you who want imperatively European references, here is premium butter from Europe :-)
http://www.saumweber.biz/images/stories/pdf/e_premium butter...
'Both cultured and uncultured butter types may also be premium, or European-style, meaning the butterfat content is extra-high. Premium butter is a pastry baker’s best friend. '
neutral |
Tony M
: That may work in your country, but wouldn't be understandable in, for example, the UK, where other types of 'premium butter' are available; this almost seems to describe 'ordinary' European butter!
1 hr
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I have a link from Germany with exactly the same reference to the same butter: premium butter :-) http://www.saumweber.biz/images/stories/pdf/e_premium butter...
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neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: agree with Tony. "premium" is too vague. You haven't understood his comment about you looking at this "from a transatlantic perspective"
4 hrs
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well that is indeed what is used in the litterature about the subject (visit links :-)
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patissier butter
http://lechef.be/index.cfm?Content_ID=703768099.html
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-11-17 01:19:27 GMT)
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"Patissier" is a well-known and used term but you could keep the French term and add in brackets "High butter-fat content"
NOTE it is not just high fat (as Tony has suggested) BUT high butter-fat content
here's a UK ref.
http://www.callbakolondon.com/chilled/butter-and-soft-margar...
http://www.callbakolondon.com/contact/
neutral |
Tony M
: I think that's a non-translation cop-out, and not a term that would be widely understood in an EN-speaking context; note your ref is from BE.
30 mins
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not a cop-out at all. See note above.
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neutral |
Lorraine Dubuc
: I don't like Frenglish very much
5 hrs
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I lived in Quebec so I know what you mean and neither do I but "patissier" is a word commonly used and understood in English.
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high fat content butter for baking
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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-11-17 08:46:45 GMT)
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As G2 correctly points out, it should of course be 'high butterfat content', but in view of Asker's context of an ingredients list, I felt it unnecessary and clumsy to repeat 'butter' twice.
Do let's please note that 'high butterfat content' is NOT the same as 'concentrated butter', which is a product that has been processed, and then has to be reconstituted afterwards — even though the meanings sound in everyday language as if they ought to be the same!
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:26:51 GMT)
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Goodness, the plot (if not the butter!) thickens!
According to this manufacturer's documentation (in FR):
http://www.lactalischf.fr/visuels/fiches_techniques/37516.pd...
their own 'beurre pâtissier' is indeed 'concentrated butter' — BUT their product package label in EN reads 'anhydrous milk fat'; getta load of that!
HOWEVER, it just might be that this is the term Asker needs for her ingredients list: short, succinct, and sounds suitably technical!
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Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2013-11-19 21:34:52 GMT)
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Quoting the reference kindly found by sbgaut:
http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/fiches_pratiques/beurre....
After having separately mentioned 'beurre concentré', it goes on to say:
"Il existe également un beurre commercialisé sous le nom de "beurre pâtissier-glacier" ou "beurre pâtissier". C'est un beurre subventionné et constitué à 25% de beurre reconstitué."
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Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2013-11-19 21:36:52 GMT)
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It does also talk about the "Matière Grasse Laitière Anhydre (MGLA)" which the other manufacturer I mentioned refers to in EN as 'anhydrous milk fat', and which I think would be the most appropriate term for a list of ingredients — cf. things like 'hydrogenated vegetable oil' etc.
neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: not just "high fat" but high butter-fat content.
4 hrs
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Well, yes, but I was trying to keep it as short as possible for Askers ingredients list :-(
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Reference comments
Wafflings
Can even end up in court : http://www.juricaf.org/arret/FRANCE-COURADMINISTRATIVEDAPPEL...
"Beurre concentré" appears to have a minimum fat content of 99.8% :
http://www.dgf.fr/francais/produit/txt_sup/06127.txt
"Si le beurre provenant de l’intervention est transformé en beurre
concentré, la totalié du beurre attribué doit être transformée en beure
concentré d’une teneur minimale en matières grasses de 99,8 % et doit
fournir au minimum 100 kilogrammes de beurre concentré par 122,5
kilogrammes de beurre utilisé."
Is this the same thing as "beurre patissier"?
There are also references to "beurre-pâtissier-glacier" thus, I suppose, used in the making of pâtisserie and ice-cream. If it is in fact "beurre concentré" transformed in one particular way for pâtisserie and in another for ice-cream, are we then talking about the same thing?
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:03:19 GMT)
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http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE...
For the CE reguation 2571/97.
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:03:32 GMT)
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Article 5.
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:04:16 GMT)
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Scratch the DGF reference, which should be the eur-lex one. AN editing eerror. Sorry.
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:08:29 GMT)
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http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/fiches_pratiques/beurre....
And indeed, different types of "beurre concentré":
http://www.beuralia.fr/Beuralia/sa_indus.aspx?site=BEURALI&l...
From which it would appear that "beurre pâtissier" is in fact a substype :
-Beurres traditionnels 82% MG
Beurre 82%MG
Beurre 82%MG « frais »
Beurre 82%MG Biologique
Beurre 82%MG Bretagne
-Beurre texturé 82%MG
Beurre texturé HPR : Homogène Plastique Régulier 82%MG
-Beurres concentrés 99,8%MG
Beurre concentré quatre-quart
Beurre concentré Pâtissier
- Beurres concentrés à Point de Fusion Spécifique
Beurre concentré croissant-feuilletage PF 36-38°C
Beurre concentré liquide à T°C ambiante PF 9-10°C
Beurre concentré haut PF 42°C
Beurre concentré à PF spécifique PF22 à PF35°C
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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:10:33 GMT)
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http://www.easydroit.fr/jurisprudence/Cours-administratives-...
It would be helpful to have some decent context here!
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Note added at 1 day25 mins (2013-11-17 19:25:12 GMT)
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http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...
Maybe consider using the French?
"BEURRE PÂTISSIER Also known as beurre concentré and beurre pasteurisé déshydraté, it contains no water and has a 99.8 percent fat content, compared with the 80 to 82 percent fat content of regular butter. Using this butter requires the addition of water to recipes."
agree |
Tony M
: No further context really needed, Nikki: everyone in the trade here knows what it is. 'beurre pâtissier' is more concentrated than usual, but isn't necessarily what we call 'concentrated butter' in EN — whence the problem.
13 mins
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I see your point, but I was trying to make a distinction, as if there is one, and it's used, then it may help in determining the solution. Or then again not! ;-). It is not, for example, a "beurre concentré à PFS", but I digress.
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ref.
http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...
PÂTISSIER est un beurre concentré destiné spécialement à la confection des pâtes levées et brioches.
http://www.lechef.be/index.cfm?Content_ID=263273451.html
if one looks on the www...........
http://www.cooksinfo.com/beurre-patissier
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-11-17 01:22:14 GMT)
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Le beurre concentré (ou beurre pâtissier)
Dans ce beurre, on a éliminé par fonte douce, décantation, centrifugation pratiquement toute l'eau et la matière sèche non grasse. Il contient au minimum 99,8% de matière grasse laitière anhydre (MGLA).
http://www.maison-du-lait.com/fr/les-produits-lait/beurres
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Note added at 2 days22 hrs (2013-11-19 17:09:06 GMT)
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BEURRE PÂTISSIER Also known as beurre concentré and beurre pasteurisé déshydraté, it contains no water and has a 99.8 percent fat content, compared with the 80 to 82 percent fat content of regular butter. Using this butter requires the addition of water to recipes.
http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...
agree |
Tony M
: Brilliant research ;-)
44 mins
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agree |
philgoddard
1 hr
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agree |
Rachel Fell
: ;-) http://www.dhaeze.be/boter.php?language=engels - and the rest...;-)
4 hrs
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love the Dunglish bakker's butter /Wow, yes, it's 100% Dungish! Happens a lot. A native NL speaker has translated French directly into Dunglish. Butter with a savoury parfume. Words run together NL style (butterproducts). All so typical.
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agree |
EvaVer (X)
: yes, of course, but in English? waterless butter?
12 hrs
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concentrated butter. It's also official EU speak.
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agree |
Mark Nathan
: Yes, it has a different consistency at different temperatures compared to normal butter. I remember a French pastry chef who would use it for his puff pastry and delighted in giving me a knowing wink as if it was some kind of trick.
15 hrs
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neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: A number of sources do suggest that "beurre concentré" and "-pâtissier" are synonymous. Hwvr, if they are, I don't see how it can be "derived from concentrated butter" and yet synonymous.//See what you mean, but I was basing this comm on your first source
20 hrs
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well, it's not a one-off. what is derived from concentrated butter? Asker provides NO context whatsoever. The question refers to something made with this butter. I think it's important not start to introduce confusion unnecessarily.
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Discussion
Could you indicate the context in which your term appears? Is it a recipe? Is it a professional context? Is it a home, domestic context? It could even be a legal, administrative context (recent cases, Nantes, Douai...).
Perhaps you could provide a spot more info then we could start considering whether the finer detail is even important and then dig further to pin it down.