Jun 4, 2007 14:41
17 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

cavalier

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
I am translating a memo which defines a silent partnership agreement as follows: "La convention de croupier est généralement définie comme étant le contrat par lequel un titulaire de droits sociaux (le "Cavalier") s'engage, en contrepartie de diverses prestations, envers une personne (le "Croupier") ... à partager profits ....."
Proposed translations (English)
3 +5 the active partner
3 +4 explanation

Discussion

Gad Kohenov Jun 4, 2007:
From what I find the cavalier is called "rider" and the croupier is left as it is in French.
Sarah Russell (asker) Jun 4, 2007:
Thanks for pointing out this link, but it doesn't really help me (I had already checked out other proz entries to see whether I could find the answer). My question here relates specifically to the translation of cavalier and croupier rather than to the title of the agreement itself.
Sandra Petch Jun 4, 2007:

Proposed translations

+5
42 mins
Selected

the active partner

Croupier

An attendant at a gaming table who collects and pays bets.

[French, one who rides behind another on a horse (obsolete), croupier, from croupe, rump, croup, from Old French. See croup2.]

http://www.answers.com/croupier

C. SILENT PARTNERSHIP

A silent partnership is created by an informal agreement between at least two persons, one being a passive partner with capacity to enter into commercial transactions (silent partner) and the other an active partner with capacity to acquire commercial identity. The liability of silent partners is limited to the amount of their contribution, whilst that of active partners is unlimited.
http://www.helleniccomserve.com/settingupbusinessgreece.html

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Note added at 48 mins (2007-06-04 15:30:07 GMT)
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active partners
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/26961/what_you_shou...
Peer comment(s):

agree Robert Frankling : For "cavalier"...leave as is bracket..."Cavalier" (active partner)
2 hrs
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
2 hrs
agree Graham macLachlan
4 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
5 hrs
agree Shaila Kamath
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much"
+4
2 hrs

explanation

"Cavalier" and "croupier" are legal terms not appearing in English-speaking parts of the world, except for Quebec and Louisiana that use a Civil Code.

The Louisiana law "permits each partner to join with him someone to share with him the risks and benefits of his share. There is then formed a little partnership of a subordinate character between such partner and the third person with whom he contracts, without the other partners being entitled to benefit from, or being liable on such contract as to which they are strangers (Art. 1861). The third person thus associated in a subordinate way with the operations of the partnership is called a "croupier." [fn.16]

[fn.16:] The use of this word in card or dice games is very old. It is an allusion to the habit which people who formerly travelled by horse had, when carriages were rare and the roads bad, of picking up riders on the crupper to render them a service.

2 Planiol, Civil Law Treatise No. 1975 (La. State Law Institute transl. 1959). When a partner elects to share his interest in the partnership with a third person, he cannot thereby establish any relationship between the third person and the partnership or the other partners. The latter remain "strangers" to and insulated from liability due to the fact that the little subordinate partnership is formed strictly between the partner and the third person. In short, the third person is taken on as a "croupier" only by the partner with whom he contracts and he rides only on that partner's "crupper." Consequently, Article 2812 does not authorize a partner to create partnership obligations to a third person by sharing his partnership interest with a third party. See Morris and Holmes § 2.08 at 68-74. Thus, the majority opinion errs in relying on Article 2812 to support its theory that Terry Smith created and transferred a capital interest in Creative Development because Article 2812 contemplates merely the sharing of a partner's existing share in the partnership.(65)"

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=5th&n...

The new concept of partnership in Quebec law has called for a change ..... transfers, croupier agreements, and hypothecs (1.1.1.2.1.). They may also be ...
www.apff.org/_site/DOCUMENTS/PDF/HARMONISATION_RECUEIL-2005...

In general:
"Si le texte est régi par le droit français...l’exercice consistera à rendre compréhensibles en langue anglaise des notions juridiques qui sont celles du droit français. Des termes peu fréquents devront être explicités afin d’être compréhensibles pour un lecteur peu familier avec le droit français. Prenons le cas de la " convention de croupier ", c’est-à-dire le contrat par lequel un associé convient, sans avoir obtenu l’accord de ses coassociés, de partager les bénéfices et les pertes résultant de sa participation dans une société. Une traduction littérale donnerait à penser que le contrat en cause porte sur l’exploitation d’une maison de jeux. La seule solution correcte sera de reprendre le terme français en italique, et de le faire suivre, entre parenthèses, de la traduction en anglais de son explication. La même règle s’appliquera aux termes renvoyant à des institutions juridiques spécifiquement françaises.

Suggestion: "cavalier" (active partner)
Peer comment(s):

agree Vicky Papaprodromou
5 mins
thanks
agree Graham macLachlan : comprehensive!
2 hrs
All the things we're learning...
agree AllegroTrans : we would only use "active" & "sleeping" in UK English - your explanation is fascinating!
3 hrs
I call it documentation.
agree Katarina Peters
8 hrs
thx
Something went wrong...
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