May 19 11:55
1 mo ago
44 viewers *
German term

Bodenlager

German to English Tech/Engineering Music Piano parts/construction
Das Bodenlager am Damm aus vertikal verleimten Buche- und Mahagonilagen

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The text is about pianos. My working theory is "brace" for Bodenlager, but it doesn't appear to be a commonly used term.

(From another website: "Das Bodenlager stellt man sich am besten als einen Rahmen vor, der auf die Rast geleimt wird. Es wird später an den Stellen ausgestemmt, wo die Rippen des Resonanzbodens verlaufen.")
Proposed translations (English)
3 -1 (cast-)iron plate
1 back frame
Change log

May 19, 2024 12:39: writeaway changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Other" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "Piano parts/construction"

May 23, 2024 08:46: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Tech/Engineering"

Discussion

inner rim I think the term you’re looking for is "inner rim“ but I am not 100%. I’m a pianist myself but have honestly never heard of Bodenlager, but here it what I think:
Bodenlager = innerer Rim in German:
“um ihm langfristigen Halt zu geben wird er dann auf voller Länge durch Querrippen verstärkt und auf den inneren Rim (Bodenlager) verleimt.“ (https://www.pianoschmitz.de/fluegel--klaviere/yamaha/funktio...
In English, there is an outer and an inner rim:
https://www.yamaha.com/en/musical_instrument_guide/piano/man...
The sentence that confirms it for me is this one:
“The soundboard will later rest on the inner rim, which is milled to accommodate it.“

If you need 100% certainty, I think you need to speak to a piano technician.
Björn Vrooman May 21:
FYI I've asked someone with expertise in this area to join us. If he doesn't, I'll look at it again this evening. I hereby retract my "Come on," Phil, because this is the *one* part with different names apparently. E.g.:
"Stimmstock und Resonanzboden müssen natürlich irgendwie befestigt sein. Das Grundgerüst, das alle Teile eines Klaviers zusammenhält, ist die Rast, eine Balkenkonstruktion, auf die Resonanzboden und Stimmstock aufgeleimt werden. Kleinklaviere haben oft eine Rast, die nur aus einem Balkenviereck ohne Querverstrebungen besteht, größere eine stabilere Konstruktion mit aufrechten, kreuz- oder strahlenförmig angeordneten Querbalken. Beim Flügel gehört die gerundete Außenwand, die Zarge oder bei Steinway Rim genannt wird (was nichts anderes als Zarge heißt), mit zur Rast."
http://pian-e-forte.de/piano/klavier.htm

That would mean Rast, Rim, and Bodenlager are all the same. One last link, which I think may be very, very helpful: http://www.pianosinsideout.com/constbig.pdf

According to that, I still think it's the rim (see pp. 22 and 23), but let's see.

Best
Björn Vrooman May 20:
PS2 Hope it's a GNS link, but I think so:
"Das Resonanzbodenlager – die Zarge
Die horizontal verlaufenden massiven Rotbuchen- und Mahagonischichten der Zarge bilden die Peripherie der Rast und erhöhen die Schwingungsübertragung. Der mit Rippen und Steg verleimte Boden darf sich während einer festgelegten Reifezeit entwickeln und wird, sobald er den gewünschten Spannungs- und Wölbungsgrad erreicht hat, auf das Resonanzbodenlager geleimt. Das Resonanzbodenlager, die Zarge, wird entsprechend der gewünschten Bodenwölbung so angepasst, dass die Resonanzbodenwölbung optimal unterstützt wird."
https://www.bechstein.com/service/klavierratgeber/c-bechstei...

Here it says:
"Die Gussplatte trägt zusammen mit dem hölzernen Rahmenwerk die Spannung der etwa 220 Saiten...Die Gussplatte ist fest mit dem Stimmstock und dem Bodenlager verschraubt."
https://www.piano-palme.de/de/component/content/category/15-...

EN:
"The plate, rim and pinblock manage the twenty tons of string tension, while the bridges and soundboard transform the energy imparted to the strings via the piano’s hammers into what we appreciate as beautiful music."
http://davidhughespiano.com/dgh_pian_anat.html
Björn Vrooman May 20:
PS The "Resonanzboden" is the soundboard/sounding board, AFAIK. All of these other parts are connected to it somehow; that's why I thought this should be comparatively easy to figure out (was not trying to be offensive or anything).

Best
Björn Vrooman May 20:
Scott Did you look at any of the links below? The Zarge is the same as the "Raste," which is part of that example sentence:
"Die mit Holzbalken verstrebte Zarge, die so genannte Raste, dient der festen Verankerung des Resonanzbodens und ermöglicht so dessen freies Schwingen. Aus der Präzision der Raste lässt sich leicht auf die Güte des Flügels/Klaviers schließen, denn von ihr hängen alle weiteren Komponenten der Konstruktion ab."
https://www.piano-centrum-rostock.de/lexikon.html

The "Damm" is this:
"Hinter dem Klaviaturboden schließt sich der Damm an, ein quer im Flügel stehendes Brett, an dem die Dämpfung des Flügels befestigt ist. Der Damm teilt die Spielmechanik von der Klanganlage ab."
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flügel_(Tasteninstrument)

I can look whether I can figure out what all three are, but I'm pretty sure you can find all of this at the links I've already provided.

Here's one that may help with the small parts:
https://www.bluebookofpianos.com/actions.html

Best
scottmw90 (asker) May 20:
I have "main rail" for Damm. The problem is, I've also been given Zarge for "inner rim" and Außenwand for "outer rim".
Björn Vrooman May 19:
Hello Phil Compared to the (financial) questions Scott used to ask, it's comparatively easy in my view, though I admit it's not as quickly found as other piano parts; see e.g. M-W's visual dictionary, which doesn't include it:
https://www.visualdictionaryonline.com/arts-architecture/mus...

It took me about 5 minutes, however, but I think I've said this before: I believe I find certain things quicker because of my location and other search engine settings; it's one reason why you should never trust the number of Ghits for any word combo because the results you get depend on a lot of factors (I know you don't do this, but other people seem to cherish those Ghit numbers).

I'm curious, tough, why you'd think the meaning of Bodenlager would change based on context? That's how I understood your Q, but I could be wrong, ofc.

Best wishes and enjoy your Sunday!
philgoddard May 19:
Björn If 'come on' means 'this is easy', I disagree. I spent quite a while unsuccessfully researching it.
Björn Vrooman May 19:
Come on "Piano rims are often made of maple and/or maple and mahogany laminate, though sometimes spruce is used."
https://hub.yamaha.com/pianos/p-acoustic/a-brief-guide-to-pi...

"In einem Spezialverfahren wird eine elastische und stabile Wölbung in den Resonanzboden gebracht; um ihm langfristigen Halt zu geben wird er dann auf voller Länge durch Querrippen verstärkt und auf den inneren Rim (Bodenlager) verleimt."
https://www.pianoschmitz.de/fluegel--klaviere/yamaha/funktio...

PS
https://pianopricepoint.com/researching-piano-rims/#:~:text=...

https://www.chamberlainpianos.co.uk/blogs/knowledgebase/maki...
philgoddard May 19:
How have you translated Damm?

Proposed translations

-1
1 day 11 hrs

(cast-)iron plate

Perhaps someone can post a conclusive answer, instead of muddled Discussion Entries.
Example sentence:

The cast-iron plate stabilizes the overall structure of the grand piano and absorbs tension from the strings. The iron plate itself is the only part of the grand piano that does not resonate.

A carefully cast frame, this large piece of cast iron sits above the soundboard. Its purpose is to absorb the lion’s share of the over 40,000 lbs of tension produced from the hundreds of piano strings.

Peer comment(s):

disagree Björn Vrooman : Nothing "muddied" about it; Germans just like to give things different names apparently. Your *own* link says the iron plate is *above* the soundboard. Last d-box entry: "...Gussplatte ist fest mit dem...Bodenlager verschraubt..." So that's just wrong.
8 hrs
neutral Bourth : I doubt it would be glued or cutouts made into it.
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 days 1 hr

back frame

As shown here: https://www.piano.christophersmit.com/backFrame.html

I've not found anything about the back frame being mortised to accommodate the soundboard ribs, but maybe in most cases there is sufficient space between backframe and soundboard for the ribs to not make contact.

Not that that the ribs may also be called braces, so 'bracing' might be confusing, even if 'brace' is used in the def. above and I have found 'back bracing' also for what I assume is the 'back frame'.

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Note added at 2 days 2 hrs (2024-05-21 14:23:56 GMT)
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Not --> NotE
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