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Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

mexer com (alguém)

English translation:

catcall (someone)

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Jan 27, 2022 21:57
2 yrs ago
45 viewers *
Portuguese term

mexer com (alguém)

Portuguese to English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings Glossary
Joaquim mexeu com a vizinha.

mexer: importunar com gracejos ou impertinências (Dicionário Informal)

Is "catcall (v.)" or "make a catcall" a good translation for this context? If not, what would you suggest?

catcall: a loud, sexually suggestive call or comment directed at someone publicly (as on the street) (Merriam-Webster)

Also, for clarification purposes, I don't understand how Lexico.com defines "catcall" as an "intransitive verb" and yet provides a few examples that show otherwise:

"They were fired for catcalling at women."
"Men catcalled me every other block, but even they couldn't kill my day."
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/catcall

Thank you all.

L2: EN-US
Usage: Idiomatic
Proposed translations (English)
4 Catcalling
4 +6 mess with
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Lara Barnett

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Discussion

Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Shifting gears In my attempt to validate "mess with", here's what I found out. In parentheses is the approximate meaning in each context.

"This is when gigs girlfriend sleeping and we messed with her" (= teased; bothered; annoyed)
https://youtu.be/808lk6QtmBc

"Don't mess with married women" (= fornicate)
** Warning: religious proselytizing ** https://youtu.be/jTPcvNZJJyg

"When you mess with the wrong woman, that's what you get in return" (= physically attack)
** YouTube warning: This video may be inappropriate for some users **
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOR_iY8jedE

"Never mess with married women! Ever" (= get involved; have an affair)
https://youtu.be/SMXGObbHfcQ

"Why does he mess with me?" (= bother, maybe "mess with my head")
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-he-mess-with-me
Lara Barnett Jan 28, 2022:
@ Barbara Could be US vs UK difference here - but I was not saying "mess with" is a sexual term. I was giving an example off how it can be used. "Mess with" means (in slang) playing around with something, which is why people here in UK sometimes use it in the way of describing a kind of abusive relationship, as per my example. Could be that they do not use this expression in USA, but I wouldn't know..
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Catcalls Video: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman
"She is barraged the entire time by aggressive catcalls couched as compliments":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/29/catca...
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Lara, Thank you again for the additional info. In my mind, "mexer" is sexually insulting for the most part, although Dicionário Informal is somewhat. vague in its definition. Here are some interesting comments by women in Brazil on this topic:

From the "Ela Ele" website, automatically translated by DeepL: https://www.deepl.com/translator#pt/en/A maioria dos homens ...

Translated from "Veja" magazine:
When the compliment is not a compliment, but a crime
In the first nine months of the year, the capital of São Paulo registered two cases per day of women who went to the police station to report men's offensive approach. Reporting is still rare...
https://veja.abril.com.br/brasil/quando-a-cantada-nao-e-um-e...
Barbara Cochran, MFA Jan 28, 2022:
Hi Oliver Glad I was finally able to check in on this question. Perhaps I was looking at the phrase "mexer COM" in too literal a fashion.
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Barbara, Thank you for your input. In the example you gave about the guy at the airport, I would probably translate "mess with" as "mexer" in the sense of "remexer; tocar" (def. #5 on this page: https://www.aulete.com.br/mexer), which is very different than the meaning in question. The more I think and the more examples I see with "mess with", the more inclined I am to steer away from it (with due respect to those who agreed on it). I'll post a few more references in response to Lara. Thanks again.
Barbara Cochran, MFA Jan 28, 2022:
The Expression "Mess With" I have only heard it used here in the US in utterances like "don't mess with my mind", "don't mess with my stuff (my own possessions, like what's on my desk, and the like), and, in most cases. I don't remember hearing it at all in contexts that are overtly sexual (except in a case like "don't mess with my junk", which one guy, on a radio program, said he wanted to say to a TSA agent at an airport here in the US, while the latter was running his hands over him). But"catcall" is, for sure, a form of sexual harassment, even though some women find it flattering when they are the object of that, because they are foolish enough to think that the men who do that to them actually find them attractive and worth something.
Lara Barnett Jan 28, 2022:
@ Oliver "Catcalling" a woman is actually sexually insulting, and is considered as quite boisterous and offensive behaviour, being associated with harassment as it takes place in the street or other public area.
"Mess with someone" has a less aggressive intention, although it would be associated with a guy who may have simply got it wrong by acting inappropriately and misjudging his actions, such as a married man striking up an intimate relationship with a vulnerable young woman (and I assume vice versa would happen also in some situations.)

However - Note that "messing around" can also mean playing around for fun without being abusive or offensive - this would depend on how you use the verb, for example "i was messing around this afternoon" could mean that I had nothing to do, or did not want to do my work, so I mooched around doing useless tasks.
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Lara, Thank you for clarifying. Very helpful indeed.
Lara Barnett Jan 28, 2022:
@ Oliver "catcalling" is a distinct action and is a sexual insult by men who believe they are flattering a woman. On the other hand if you were to use "mess" in this context it would simply be a term used the purpose of emphasis or heightened description, i.e. "to mess with somebody" is not necessarily an alternative word, or even an opposite, for catcalling, it is a separate description of the way somebody sees a particular situation -for example "I have messed up my essay" or "He has messed with my head" or even "The husband was messing around with another woman" etc - the word "mess" will vary with each situation but keeps the same basic idea of ruining or destroying the way things are meant to be. I would not say that "mexer" always is translatable using "mess", but could be if you wanted to add emphasis, but only depending on the context, which is lacking here..
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
José Patrício, In the video shared by Lara, the arguments were prompted by the guys' initial catcalling and it was verbal (meaning words). Check it out!
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Lara, Thank you for clarifying about the usage and especially for sharing the video. What a lesson for these catcallers! Given the context (see below) and what's shown in the video, it seems to me that "catcall" might be a viable translation. Catcall someone? What do you think?
José Patrício Jan 28, 2022:
catcall (v.) - vaiar, assobiar
Assobiar é mexer com ela mas o gozo é um tanto sensual, como quem diz ‘que boazona!’, mas é o mais provável, ou discutir com ela, também pode ser
Acho que o mais próprio, embora mais generalizante é ‘meter-se com alg. ‘ (mess with sb)
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Simone & Lara, The example sentence and the definition both come from the same source (i.e. Dicionário Informal), so "mexer" here means: "importunar com gracejos ou impertinências". I just checked a couple more definitions:
importunar: Incomodar com solicitações, atitudes desagradáveis ou insistentes; PERTURBAR (Aulete)
gracejo: Dito zombeteiro e insolente; CAÇOADA; TROÇA (Aulete)
According to DeepL: https://www.deepl.com/translator#pt/en/importunar alguém com...
I hope this helps clarify the context.
Lara Barnett Jan 28, 2022:
@ Oliver is there any context to this post or is it just a general enquiry about the usage? There are actually two or there different ways this could be translated, depending on the context.
Lara Barnett Jan 28, 2022:
Catcall usage I would not normally use "at" after catcall.
"Everlast conducted several comprehensive interviews with men who have CATCALLED WOMEN in the past."
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/street-harassers-real...
Could your website link reflect USA usage perhaps? Although I would not know about that, but in UK at least, strictly speaking we don't normally add "at" following the verb.
Simone Taylor Jan 28, 2022:
There is no context given in Portuguese, "mexeu com a vizinha" could mean he played a practical joke, he told her a sad story that moved her to tears, it could mean he flirted with her, so many possibilities. Mess with is certainly one of them you can't discard, but not the only one to be an equivalent to "mexeu com a vizinha."
Oliver Simões (asker) Jan 28, 2022:
Hi Barbara, Indeed. It's interesting yet quite challenging at times. In my understanding, "mexer" does not necessarily imply physical touch, it's mostly verbal, "untoward" advances as Muriel mentioned. And they can happen on the streets, in line with M-W's definition of "catcall".

I found an example on Reverso that I believe is close enough to the original meaning. What do you think?

English: He said now I'd learn what happens when I mess with a Road Ragers girl.
Translation: Falou que agora eu sabia o que dava mexer com a Road Ragers. (Reverso)

In view of M-W's definition, wouldn't "catcall" or "make a catcall" be appropriate in the context of Joaquim and his neighbor? (Joaquim mexeu com a vizinha.)

Thank you for whatever insights you can provide me.
Barbara Cochran, MFA Jan 27, 2022:
Hi Oliver What an interesting project! Several possibilities, some that don't necessarilyy intersect all that well, one with the other, in some cases, are found here, but "catcall" isn't one of them: https://context.reverso.net/translation/portuguese-english/m...
Ward Whittaker Jan 27, 2022:
It can also mean: To mess with somebody. As in: "don't mess with me bro, I'm bigger than you". It has many meanings and context is the key here. You can also mess with somebody's head as in torment them or play a trick on them.

Proposed translations

18 hrs
Selected

Catcalling

Catcall is an idea here, but depends on the context. We need context to be sure and a dictionary definition is not context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2022-01-28 16:47:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think we need context here, but calling out to a woman rudely is certainly seen as a catcall. With regard the discussion boxes, the explanations defined as "messing" with someone bears no relation to catcalling in any case.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2022-01-28 21:16:10 GMT)
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@ Oliver
I would say its more associated with sexually offensive/abusive, rather than sexual in a friendly way.
Note from asker:
Indeed, more context is needed. In the absence of it. I take the video you referenced as a good example of “mexer com (alguém”). In my perception, the sexual overtones are clear. No question in my mind.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Lara. I think this term fits the definition of "mexer" better. When I googled "catcalling her", more than 28K results came up, so this answers my question about whether it can be used as a transitive verb, regardless of what the grammar book says. It's informal anyway, so who cares about prescriptive grammar? Thank you all for your help. catcalling her: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22catcalling+her%22"
+6
34 mins

mess with

I've read the discussion and checked out Barbara's link. I feel confident that if it's a man messing with a woman, it's clear that he's making untoward advances - more than just catcalls. It could be touching or verbal. In other contexts it would simply mean to importune in some way.

THAT SAID, 'mess around with' means that they are having sex. What a difference the simple adverb makes!

From the Internet, "People also ask":
What does it mean to mess around with someone?
mainly US informal. If a married man or woman messes around with someone, they have a sexual relationship with someone who is not their wife or husband: She found out that her husband was messing around with his secretary. SMART Vocabulary: related words and phrases.Jan 19, 2022

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Note added at 37 mins (2022-01-27 22:35:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

mess with - Urban Dictionary
https://www.urbandictionary.com › define
2. To alter, change, use, touch, examine or interact in any way with someone else's property or person. Hey, stop messing with my stuff, man! ... Get a messing ...

Mess with Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com › browse › mess--with
Interfere or associate with; also, annoy, bother. For example, Our group won't mess with those street musicians, or I told him not to mess with me or there ...

mess with somebody/something - Longman Dictionary
https://www.ldoceonline.com › dictionary › mess-with
mess with somebody/something meaning, definition, what is mess with somebody/something: to get involved with someone or somethin...: Learn more.

MESS WITH SB | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › mess-wit...
Jan 19, 2022 — to treat someone in a bad, rude, or annoying way, or to start an argument with someone: I've warned you already, don't mess with me!
Note from asker:
Thank you, Muriel. I thought of "mess with" prior to posting the question, but for some reason I dismissed it. I just posted a comment on the DB for Barbara. Please feel free to add any new insights.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles R. Castleberry : In real life and use; not just according to the internet or books
11 hrs
Thank you, Charles!
agree José Patrício
12 hrs
Thank you, JP!
agree Katarina Peters
14 hrs
Thank you, Katarina!
agree R. Alex Jenkins : Don't mess with me! :D Used all the time.
16 hrs
Thank you, Richard!
agree Clauwolf
17 hrs
Thank you, Clauwolf!
neutral Lara Barnett : Yes, but catcalls have nothing to do with making advances on a woman, they are carried out to get her attention in an obnoxious way. Most men know that catcalling is not a route to furthering advances on women.// I actually think we need proper context.
18 hrs
Nor does "mexer". Oliver only quoted 'catcall' from a glossary that he found. He was questioning whether it was the real meaning of "mexer".
agree Ward Whittaker
21 hrs
Thank you, Ward!
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