| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Does the perfect translation exist? Thread poster: Raf Uzar
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thmarks 
Japan
Local time: 16:30
Finnish to English
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| "Have no fear of perfection, you will never reach it" alone. | Jul 31, 2009 |
Indeed, as Mr. Samuel Murray from South Africa states, from a semantic point of view all translation is flawed. But being an idealist (and god forbid, not a perfectionist!), I consider the functionality and the degree of perfection of a translation to be tightly intertwined. The cultural (and therefore linguistic) differences and realities between two groups of people speaking different languages either do or do not allow them to understand a certain concept in the same way. If the former is ... See more Indeed, as Mr. Samuel Murray from South Africa states, from a semantic point of view all translation is flawed. But being an idealist (and god forbid, not a perfectionist!), I consider the functionality and the degree of perfection of a translation to be tightly intertwined. The cultural (and therefore linguistic) differences and realities between two groups of people speaking different languages either do or do not allow them to understand a certain concept in the same way. If the former is the case, then the expressions of each language representing this concept are perfect translations of each other. The two parties simply have to agree on this.  ▲ Collapse
| | | | Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Fear of degrees of perfection...? | Jul 31, 2009 |
"Degree of perfection" is a great turn of phrase!
| | | | Habib Shariati
Iran
Local time: 11:00
English to Persian (Farsi)
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| what is the essence of perfection? | Aug 4, 2009 |
Although the above comments were all useful but regarding the existence of perfect translation I have to say, trying to be able to judge for ourselves about the perfectness of translation or lack of it, before anything we have to know what is the propose behind translation or why it is there for? may be the answer to this question will also be of help that why we write or why authorship is required? just think of those times when translation in the target language had been more efficient and mo... See more Although the above comments were all useful but regarding the existence of perfect translation I have to say, trying to be able to judge for ourselves about the perfectness of translation or lack of it, before anything we have to know what is the propose behind translation or why it is there for? may be the answer to this question will also be of help that why we write or why authorship is required? just think of those times when translation in the target language had been more efficient and more effective in comparison with its source version. Not to mention that any time we try to judge something there would be certain criteria, right now there is a Korean movie on Iranian television screen in Farsi where its audience are several times bigger than its Korean one and even more passionate about that movie in comparison to its Korean audience just imagine that movie is about a Korean legend and is a production of that country, isn't that interesting?!
[Edited at 2009-08-04 07:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Habib Shariati
Iran
Local time: 11:00
English to Persian (Farsi)
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| As beholders change their impression of beauties differ | Aug 4, 2009 |
Shouldn't we say that there are times where translation in certain instances is much more perfect, because beholder which we scale beauty according to his or her taste changes and belongs to a new domain.
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Habib Shariati
Iran
Local time: 11:00
English to Persian (Farsi)
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| A pefect reflection in the eyes of the beholder then the beholder must be a Prozian | Aug 4, 2009 |
On the other hand, if we look at the translation as a mirror reflection of the SLT may be at this time a perfect translation is the one which is more successful in expert and artistic reflection of the SLT.
| | | | Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | More Perfect???? | Aug 4, 2009 |
H Shariati, you wrote:
"...there are times where translation in certain instances is much more perfect"
How can a translation (or anything) be "much more perfect"?
| | | | | Nothing perfect exists | Aug 5, 2009 |
In reality, not even straight lines exist, but since humans are not perfect, they can think or get the impression that perfect things exist..
| | | | Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Perfect Existence | Aug 5, 2009 |
Harry, does that mean that YOU believe the perfect translation exists?
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Raf Uzar wrote:
Harry, does that mean that YOU believe the perfect translation exists?
Not in MY eyes, but I have to acknowledge that it exists in the eyes of many other people, including some customers, who have a "fuzzier" kind of view.
It is like the word "identical": For me, "two identical things" cannot exist, because they would be the same one thing, but it would be wrong to ignore that many people use the word "identical" in the meaning of "similar", and "perfect" in the meaning of "good"..
[Edited at 2009-08-05 09:36 GMT]
| | | | | Murakami and spaghetti | Aug 5, 2009 |
As a comment to thmarks's post :
When reading Haruki Murakami's novels in English or French (translated from Japanese), I always wondered if the spaghetti, cream and salads that his characters eat by the kilo were real, or mere translation shadows of more exotic japanese foods.
If anyone here knows the answer I'd love to learn it ; but I suspect that the author is sufficiently westernized to make his characters enjoy non-traditional delicacies and make that appear like it is a... See more As a comment to thmarks's post :
When reading Haruki Murakami's novels in English or French (translated from Japanese), I always wondered if the spaghetti, cream and salads that his characters eat by the kilo were real, or mere translation shadows of more exotic japanese foods.
If anyone here knows the answer I'd love to learn it ; but I suspect that the author is sufficiently westernized to make his characters enjoy non-traditional delicacies and make that appear like it is a cultural norm.
More generally, as thmarks puts it, the cultural differences and realities between two languages sometimes make ideas very tricky to translate (thus 'betraying' the original text in the process) : is a perfect translation an accurate rendering of the original idea - even if this implies extending the text a great deal with explanations and translator's notes -, or an artful cover-up of all the foreign (from the target language's point of view) concepts to ensure smooth comprehension ?
As you may guess, I am more in favor of the first option as I tend to think that the latter is often motivated by a faint fear of the foreign (xenophobia might be a strong word for this).
I'm thinking in particular of how menus are translated in Chinese restaurants in Europe, and how the funny and compact original dish names become ornate and pompous 10-word poems.
Here is a link to an article about food in Siberia that made me hungry in extremely inventive and colorful ways :
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSL148485920080615?sp=true
In this article, the Japanese word umami is described as the word for the savory, gratifying fifth flavor that comes after sweet, salty, sour and bitter. Now here is a little contest : how would you have translated this word into English ? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Perfect Spaghetti | Aug 5, 2009 |
You wrote:
"is a perfect translation an accurate rendering of the original idea or an artful cover-up of all the foreign concepts to ensure smooth comprehension?"
IMHO, neither.
| | | | Habib Shariati
Iran
Local time: 11:00
English to Persian (Farsi)
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| Translation belong to a new domain | Aug 19, 2009 |
Dear Raf
About asking for my comments on more than perfect, I have to add that right now there is a television series on Iranian screen in Farsi, of a Korean legend, just think of it when its acceptance among its Iranian audience was much more higher than its Korean counterpart a place where the legend originally belongs. its actor and actress proclaimed on the Korean television that we got more fans in Iran than in our own country Sometimes a book is not admired in its original ve... See more Dear Raf
About asking for my comments on more than perfect, I have to add that right now there is a television series on Iranian screen in Farsi, of a Korean legend, just think of it when its acceptance among its Iranian audience was much more higher than its Korean counterpart a place where the legend originally belongs. its actor and actress proclaimed on the Korean television that we got more fans in Iran than in our own country Sometimes a book is not admired in its original version to put it in another word is not accepted by a source language audience. what do you think is the case? ▲ Collapse
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Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | More than Perfect | Aug 19, 2009 |
Habib,
I really liked the example you gave.
However, I think this has little to do with being 'more perfect'. Perfect, by definition, is the best that anything can be. It doesn't mean the translation was 'better' than the original only that is was more popular.
The example you gave shows us how important the reader/audience is in translation. Sometimes a translation which seems wonderfully appropriate, stylistically fluent and technically pristine may be hated by the au... See more Habib,
I really liked the example you gave.
However, I think this has little to do with being 'more perfect'. Perfect, by definition, is the best that anything can be. It doesn't mean the translation was 'better' than the original only that is was more popular.
The example you gave shows us how important the reader/audience is in translation. Sometimes a translation which seems wonderfully appropriate, stylistically fluent and technically pristine may be hated by the audience. Why? It may be due to poor marketing or a whole host of reasons. It's difficult to gauge this.
A good example of this (in Poland) are the two translations of Winnie-the-Pooh and the two translations of the Lord of the Rings. Some people argue that the less popular translations were actually better organised texts yet they sold less and thus did not become the 'cult' versions.
Is there anything we can do as translators? Yes. Try harder, hope, pray. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Habib Shariati
Iran
Local time: 11:00
English to Persian (Farsi)
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| What is the reason that it is there for? | Aug 26, 2009 |
Raf,
Why e write? and what's the use? any sort of writing is made for that specific source language, people and society. Just think about that example that you gave of Rolling's works, she became from literally no one to one of the world superstars. a listing. But do you think this could be the case for ever and ever, think about those instances where the outcome of the book or novel is not what we expect from the source language readership, then do you really think that the outco... See more Raf,
Why e write? and what's the use? any sort of writing is made for that specific source language, people and society. Just think about that example that you gave of Rolling's works, she became from literally no one to one of the world superstars. a listing. But do you think this could be the case for ever and ever, think about those instances where the outcome of the book or novel is not what we expect from the source language readership, then do you really think that the outcome of translations into one specific target language of these two above example would be the same? What do you call a translation, which is much more affective, famous and important in the target language than its original? Wouldn't you call it a better work in comparison to its original version? Isn't its degree of perfectness is high above the the original manuscript? shouldn't we call it more than perfect? for further points, you can goal to my articles about Translation Potentiality or to the forum dedicated to these theme. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 08:30
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Reply to "Reason..." | Aug 27, 2009 |
Habib wrote:
"What do you call a translation, which is much more affective, famous and important in the target language than its original? Wouldn't you call it a better work in comparison to its original version?"
Actually, I wouldn't. I'd simply say that the text is more effective and well-known. As simple as that.
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