Aug 23, 2014 18:37
10 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term
[reprendra] liberté de disposition
French to English
Law/Patents
Real Estate
This has come up before on ProZ, but I think the previous answer given is worth revisiting. A sentence that turns up in the section on conditions precedent of some property contracts: "(If the conditions are not fulfilled...) Chacune des parties reprendra alors entière liberté de disposition sans indemnité de part et d'autre".
A previous suggestion was that this is trying to say that "Either party will be free to dispose of the property", but it's not clear to me why a contract would say this (the vendor that doesn't sell the property obviously then would be, but not the purchaser...!). So does anyone have any idea what this was originally supposed to be saying? Is it that the parties are "free of the conditions of the contract" (so "libre des dispositions"), or that they are "free in a very general sense". While the very general intent is more or less clear, I can't find any legal dictionary, glossary etc actually vouching for what very specifically this phrase is supposed to mean. If anyone knows anything I'd be grateful...!
A previous suggestion was that this is trying to say that "Either party will be free to dispose of the property", but it's not clear to me why a contract would say this (the vendor that doesn't sell the property obviously then would be, but not the purchaser...!). So does anyone have any idea what this was originally supposed to be saying? Is it that the parties are "free of the conditions of the contract" (so "libre des dispositions"), or that they are "free in a very general sense". While the very general intent is more or less clear, I can't find any legal dictionary, glossary etc actually vouching for what very specifically this phrase is supposed to mean. If anyone knows anything I'd be grateful...!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | will no longer be bound by this agreement |
Daryo
|
| 4 | act as they see fit |
philgoddard
|
| 4 -1 | [shall recover] complete freedom to dispose of their property |
Gladis Audi, DipTrans
|
Proposed translations
+1
13 hrs
French term (edited):
reprendra sa liberté de disposition
Selected
will no longer be bound by this agreement
Chacune des parties reprendra alors (entière) liberté de disposition
=
Each party will no longer be bound by this agreement (in any way)
"... will no longer be bound by this agreement"
IS found as a standard clause in contracts with in effect exactly the same meaning of
"... reprendra sa liberté de disposition"
In short: because parties have "liberté de disposition" (=freedom to decide about what to do with their own property) they can enter into contracts, agree to be "bound" by the contract, i.e. lose some of that freedom. If the contract is no longer in force, they get that "liberty to act" back.
Saying that a party "is no longer bound by this agreement" is the twin brother/the mirror image of saying "this party got back its liberty to decide"
when "liberté de disposition" is used in this context (what happen if/when a contract is no longer valid), the main point is not about a philosophical treatise on freedom, but about being "bound" or not not by the specific agreement, so nothing is "lost in translation".
exemples aplenty:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="will no longer be bound b...
"(Modèle de compromis de vente)
...
NON REALISATION DES CONDITIONS SUSPENSIVES
Si l’une des conditions suspensives n’est pas réalisée, tout acompte versé sera immédiatement restitué à l’acquéreur. Chacune des parties reprendra alors entière liberté de disposition sans indemnité de part et d’autre. ..."
[http://www.lexeek.com/document/11008-compromis-vente/]
"... " Si l'une des conditions suspensives n'est pas réalisée, tout acompte versé sera immédiatement restitué à l'acquéreur. Chacune des parties reprendra alors entière liberté de disposition sans indemnité de part et d'autre " ..."
often it's reduced to just " liberté":
"... En cas de non réalisation de la condition suspensive ci-dessus, les présentes seront considérées comme nulles et non avenues et chacune des parties reprendra son entière liberté sans indemnité de part ni d’autre. ..."
[http://www.edifiance.com/presentation/wp-content/uploads/201...]
"COMPROMIS DE VENTE (Modèle)
... En cas d'exercice du droit de préemption l'acquéreur reprendra sa pleine et entière liberté et récupérera immédiatement et sans aucune formalité la somme remise ce jour au séquestre. ..."
[http://www.aparapar.com/immobilier/compromis-vente.html]
also:
"liberté de disposition [d'un bien]" = "liberté de décider quoi en faire"
"... En effet, si les copropriétaires ont en principe la liberté de disposition de leurs lots, celle-ci ne s'exerce que dans le respect de la destination de l'immeuble et des parties privatives fixée dans le règlement de copropriété. ..."
[http://www.legavox.fr/blog/maitre-joan-dray/transformation-a...]
=
Each party will no longer be bound by this agreement (in any way)
"... will no longer be bound by this agreement"
IS found as a standard clause in contracts with in effect exactly the same meaning of
"... reprendra sa liberté de disposition"
In short: because parties have "liberté de disposition" (=freedom to decide about what to do with their own property) they can enter into contracts, agree to be "bound" by the contract, i.e. lose some of that freedom. If the contract is no longer in force, they get that "liberty to act" back.
Saying that a party "is no longer bound by this agreement" is the twin brother/the mirror image of saying "this party got back its liberty to decide"
when "liberté de disposition" is used in this context (what happen if/when a contract is no longer valid), the main point is not about a philosophical treatise on freedom, but about being "bound" or not not by the specific agreement, so nothing is "lost in translation".
exemples aplenty:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="will no longer be bound b...
"(Modèle de compromis de vente)
...
NON REALISATION DES CONDITIONS SUSPENSIVES
Si l’une des conditions suspensives n’est pas réalisée, tout acompte versé sera immédiatement restitué à l’acquéreur. Chacune des parties reprendra alors entière liberté de disposition sans indemnité de part et d’autre. ..."
[http://www.lexeek.com/document/11008-compromis-vente/]
"... " Si l'une des conditions suspensives n'est pas réalisée, tout acompte versé sera immédiatement restitué à l'acquéreur. Chacune des parties reprendra alors entière liberté de disposition sans indemnité de part et d'autre " ..."
often it's reduced to just " liberté":
"... En cas de non réalisation de la condition suspensive ci-dessus, les présentes seront considérées comme nulles et non avenues et chacune des parties reprendra son entière liberté sans indemnité de part ni d’autre. ..."
[http://www.edifiance.com/presentation/wp-content/uploads/201...]
"COMPROMIS DE VENTE (Modèle)
... En cas d'exercice du droit de préemption l'acquéreur reprendra sa pleine et entière liberté et récupérera immédiatement et sans aucune formalité la somme remise ce jour au séquestre. ..."
[http://www.aparapar.com/immobilier/compromis-vente.html]
also:
"liberté de disposition [d'un bien]" = "liberté de décider quoi en faire"
"... En effet, si les copropriétaires ont en principe la liberté de disposition de leurs lots, celle-ci ne s'exerce que dans le respect de la destination de l'immeuble et des parties privatives fixée dans le règlement de copropriété. ..."
[http://www.legavox.fr/blog/maitre-joan-dray/transformation-a...]
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: I racked my brains for a good wording and I could not come up with anything better than this
11 hrs
|
|
Thanks!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
16 mins
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
110
act as they see fit
I can see why you asked this, as I think the wrong answer was chosen last time this question was asked.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/1188...
The main meaning of "disposer" is to arrange, and I think the meaning is "make any arrangement that seems appropriate to them". As you say, "dispose" makes no sense here, as the buyer can't dispose of the property.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/1188...
The main meaning of "disposer" is to arrange, and I think the meaning is "make any arrangement that seems appropriate to them". As you say, "dispose" makes no sense here, as the buyer can't dispose of the property.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: there may be better wording but this is the right idea; the parties are relieved of the condition and therefore are free to act as they see fit
4 hrs
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: on a point of method: "The main meaning of ..." is not relevant especially with a term like disposer/disposition with tens of possible meanings. ONLY the one that fits to the ST counts, even if it is the most infrequent or weird sounding of them
12 hrs
|
|
So you're saying my answer (and my dictionary reference) are wrong?
|
-1
15 hrs
Gladis Audi, DipTrans
Native in French
EN>FR Int Org/Dev/Coop, Legal
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, French to English
[shall recover] complete freedom to dispose of their property
Both parties shall recover complete freedom to dispose of their property, with no compensation being payable to or by either party.
or
Both parties shall recover complete freedom to dispose of their property, without either party having the right to claim indemnification.
or
Both parties shall recover complete freedom to dispose of their property, without either party having the right to claim indemnification.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: doesn't work for a sale option concerning one property, as the property is not "theirs", it only belongs to the original seller
10 hrs
|
Discussion
I think you need to look for a paralell with "les dispositions de la loi" - what the law (i.e. the lawmaker) has decided about s.t.