Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

lieu doublement sacré

English translation:

twice sacred site

Added to glossary by Lara Barnett
Apr 8, 2013 09:40
11 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

lieu doublement sacré

French to English Art/Literary Religion Article on Jerusalem
The context here reads:

"...le Mur occidental est aussi le soutenement del Grande Mosquée El-Aqsa avec le Dôme du Rocher, lieu doublement sacré."

I can't think of the best way to express this phrase. "Highly sacred" would lose the idea of "double", while "doubly sacred" would be wrong in the context as this is an article from a luxurious magazine. Is there a more sophisticated way of translating this while still keeping the idea of "double"? Or would it not be possible?
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): philgoddard

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Proposed translations

+5
58 mins
Selected

twice sacred site

see link
Peer comment(s):

agree B D Finch : This seems to best fit the register.
10 mins
thanks!
agree Ada Jones
25 mins
thanks!
agree Helen Shiner : Lovely solution with a bit of poetry about it. Have also come upon thrice sacred, fwiw.
48 mins
thanks! Thrice is a favourite with poets :) "Thrice noble Titus"" and Martin Luther's "Hail, sacred Rome! thrice sacred for the blood of the martyrs here shed."
agree Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
thanks!
agree Yolanda Broad : This is the right register.
9 hrs
thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you."
+3
3 mins

place which is doubly sacred

Fits the idea and is about as understandable as the original text so why not?
Peer comment(s):

agree DLyons
3 mins
agree Paul Hirsh : don't see why doubly sacred should be incompatible with a luxury mag?
52 mins
agree philgoddard
6 hrs
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+4
5 mins

doubly sacred site

*

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Note added at 5 minutes (2013-04-08 09:46:04 GMT)
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sacred or holy
Peer comment(s):

agree DLyons
1 min
Thanks
agree Victoria Britten : I don't see the problem with "doubly" either
11 mins
Thanks
agree Josephine Cassar : Agree, doubly Should definitely be used here
51 mins
Thanks
agree GILLES MEUNIER
6 hrs
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+2
39 mins

a place which is sacred for two reasons


"For Muslims, Jerusalem is thought to be sacred for two reasons: First, Muslims were initially commanded to pray toward Jerusalem. But when the Jews refused to convert to Islam, Muhammad changed the prayer direction toward Mecca. Second, Muslims believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven and back from "the Rock" which much later after his death was interpreted to mean what is today the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem."
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1609/jerusalem-sacred-for-...


Peer comment(s):

agree David Hayes : I think this is better. The French gives two reasons why the place is sacred. 'Doubly sacred' suggests to me a quantitative aspect that focuses on the degree of sacredness rather than two different reasons stemming from two different religious traditions.
13 mins
thank you David
agree DGawarecki (X) : Le Nouveau Petit Robert gives "des deux manieres" (in two ways or for two reasons) as a preferred definition for "doublement." Clearly, given the context, this is the most accurate translation.
1 hr
thank you DGawarecki
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+2
1 hr

, a place that is holy twice over.

"Doubly" and the like do not sound as well in English as "lieu doublement sacre'" does in French. "Twice over" is more native and more emphatic.
Peer comment(s):

agree rkillings : Or just "twice holy place". See Google Books, Charles McFarlane, Turkey and its destiny: the result of journeys made in 1847 and ..., Volume 2 :-)
7 hrs
agree Sheila Wilson : I prefer this to "twice holy" - time moves on and the language changes
7 hrs
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+2
3 hrs

a site sacred to two religious traditions

However, since this is from "a luxurious magazine," and thus presumably written for a well-heeled audience rather than an Academic one, why not expand a bit to make sure your readers understand exactly what your mean:

The western wall of the ancient Temple Mount of Solomon also supports the great El-Aqsa mosque, with its Dome of the Rock, and is thus a site which is sacred to two major religious traditions.
Peer comment(s):

agree David Hayes : This could work too, IMO, but you'd have to pad out what follows too. Maybe too many extra words would have to be introduced? Was thinking about style rather than price of electrons! Easy to say exactly what you mean in 20 words rather than 10 (say).
8 mins
Thanks, David. Well, how much "padding out" would need to be done is yet to be seen --best to work on one sentence at a time. The idea of "extra" words is a curious one. Electrons are cheap (for now), so if this happens to be for on-line publication...
agree Yvonne Gallagher
1 hr
Thanks, Gal.
neutral Josephine Cassar : due to 2 religious traditions, at least, but do not like it much, sorry
5 hrs
Well, I don't care for either one of them myself, Josephine but, in this case I believe that Reality wins. (Say, our text says "doublement." The site isn't sacred to a 3rd --or 4th-- religion, is it?)
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Reference comments

16 mins
Reference:

also here

Irez-vous vous recueillir vous aussi devant le Kotel, le mur des Lamentations, vestige du Temple de Jérusalem, construit il y a plus de 2000 ans ? Symbole national israélien, le Mur occidental est aussi le soutènement de la Grande Mosquée El-Aqsa avec le Dôme du Rocher -, lieu doublement sacré. C’est là qu’Abraham s’apprêtait à sacrifier son fils Isaac et que Mahomet est monté au ciel.
http://blogs.cotemaison.fr/chronique-de-voltaire/
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Helen Shiner : The point being that it is sacred for more than one religious tradition, so 'highly' would miss the point./Quite so.
1 hr
also felt that seeing the full context would help clarify things a bit
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