| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Job posting: "Looking for honest translators..." Thread poster: Claudia Krysztofiak
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| Hi Rosa Maria | Sep 13, 2006 |
"Thank you for your apology Maria (if the above is one), but it sounds like the joke of the day... I find the first statement hard to believe from someone who says has been in the industry for 27 years. After 27 years you still do'nt know that rush jobs or week-end jobs have a surcharge?"
"What is the meaning of the above? That you were just lazy to make the calculation of euros into dollars?"
--> To me, it seemed that we were beyond the "honest"-discussion and entering... See more "Thank you for your apology Maria (if the above is one), but it sounds like the joke of the day... I find the first statement hard to believe from someone who says has been in the industry for 27 years. After 27 years you still do'nt know that rush jobs or week-end jobs have a surcharge?"
"What is the meaning of the above? That you were just lazy to make the calculation of euros into dollars?"
--> To me, it seemed that we were beyond the "honest"-discussion and entering a new realm...
I am not "tempted" by low prices...I go for them...I want quality for a low price...why, you ask? Because it keeps me competitive in a market where other people succeed in delivering the goods at even lower prices.
Your example is one of personal taste. Please don't tell me that, if you were to find a coffee that tasted better to you (and living up to all of your expectations/wishes) and was cheaper you wouldn't change brands (and I'm not saying that you wouldn't switch if it were more expensive, maybe you don't care about those kinds of things...I don't know)
I am grateful for Tuliparola's post as well...weekend work, in some cases, can be quite relative. If I were a translator who is not married with kids (just an example folks, don't load your guns yet), but a fresh-out-of-school, willing-to-work, strapping young lad who takes his days off the days he does not have any work...well, that's his weekend then...
(oh God, I can already see some gun barrels over the hills, JUST AN EXAMPLE).
My point: Proz is a relatively free market...if I wish to offer a translation at 0.00001$ per 300 pages, I can...If there's someone who wishes to take it, better for me...if there's someone who's willing to put in real honest time and effort at that price...mail me ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I really thought it quite funny | Sep 13, 2006 |
MARIA GUSTAFSON wrote:
I am just looking for translators who work the same way I do.
Thank you
Maria Gustafson
Claudia Krysztofiak wrote:
Now that job description really was fun to look at.
They want honest translators,
which are people who: ...
Maria, I read your job posting and I really thought, well I would not wish to work for a person with this attitude, thinking that what she described was "the" definition of honest.
I really found it an amusing definition. And I did not understand what all this had to do with the job you had to offer which, after all, was not exactly mentioned in what was to be a job posting.
If you did not mean what you wrote, maybe you should check your choice of words, which of course all translators have to do very thoroughly. I hope you are more lucky next time!
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X) 
Local time: 21:42
| Clarification | Sep 13, 2006 |
Dimitri Van Vossel wrote:
I am not "tempted" by low prices...I go for them...I want quality for a low price...why, you ask? Because it keeps me competitive in a market where other people succeed in delivering the goods at even lower prices.
Please be my guest, and pursue them as much as you can, I am only asking that, in this site, which calls itself "the world's leading enabling and sourcing platform for language professionals" we do so in a professional way. The way the job offer was posted was offensive, and I am not alone in thinking this. The outsourcer could have asked exactly what she was asking for in a completely different -professional- manner. Furthermore, my personal perception is that her apology (she never said it was one; I assumed it was one) was such that it just added salt to the wound.
Dimitri Van Vossel wrote:
My point: Proz is a relatively free market...if I wish to offer a translation at 0.00001$ per 300 pages, I can...If there's someone who wishes to take it, better for me...if there's someone who's willing to put in real honest time and effort at that price...mail me
My point: Proz.com does not boast itself as a "relatively free market". Again, it attracted many of us by portraying itself as a site for professionals. If things have changed along the way, I wish they would write it down at the top of the home page. But so far, I have read nothing of the sort. I am thus asking that the site lives up to its own satement and our expectations: PROFESSIONALISM.
Sorry if I sound repetitive. I wonder why it is so hard for this to be understood.
| | | | Dora O'Malley
United States
Local time: 20:42
Member (2003)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Sad, they won the Translation Sweat Shop Award this week | Sep 13, 2006 |
That is all I can say...
Dora O'Malley
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Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 21:42
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
| surcharge for weekend jobs | Sep 13, 2006 |
Some translators don't charge extra; as Dimitri said, there are translators fresh out of school, eager to work, who charge their usual rates (because they don't know they can/should charge more for weekend work, or because they're afraid to). But we're not talking about individual cases or exceptions (and for this particular job offer I don't think we're talking about translators fresh out of school, but "those that can prove experience"); generally speaking, weekend jobs should have a surcharg... See more Some translators don't charge extra; as Dimitri said, there are translators fresh out of school, eager to work, who charge their usual rates (because they don't know they can/should charge more for weekend work, or because they're afraid to). But we're not talking about individual cases or exceptions (and for this particular job offer I don't think we're talking about translators fresh out of school, but "those that can prove experience"); generally speaking, weekend jobs should have a surcharge. Recently I did an urgent job for one of my favorite clients; in his e-mail he told me to add an extra 25% because the job had to be done on a weekend. My client told me to add an extra charge, I didn't even have to mention it (trust me, I would have if he hadn't). Reasonable outsourcers have reasonable expectations and respect their translators. That's all we're talking about here. We want to be respected by outsourcers, not offended by them. But Dimitri, first we have to respect ourselves, our own work, our own effort. If we don't value our work, our experience, and our knowledge, we can't expect outsourcers to do it for us.
Maria
[Edited at 2006-09-13 20:08] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Eva T
English to Albanian
+ ...
| On honesty - a reasonable request | Sep 13, 2006 |
Excuse me Rosa Maria Duenas Rios, but I do not think ProZ.com is the Policeman to tell people what to do or what to say in their request.
As far as honesty: there are people out there who are not that honest, even here, among us. I remmember a long time ago, an outsourcer in my language pairs came back very upset with a second posting of the same job that he had posted a month before. He stated that another translator (whom he gave the job previously) had lied to him and had told him that ... See more Excuse me Rosa Maria Duenas Rios, but I do not think ProZ.com is the Policeman to tell people what to do or what to say in their request.
As far as honesty: there are people out there who are not that honest, even here, among us. I remmember a long time ago, an outsourcer in my language pairs came back very upset with a second posting of the same job that he had posted a month before. He stated that another translator (whom he gave the job previously) had lied to him and had told him that that he had and used Trados, when in fact, he did not actually own Trados at all. There are people who lie in their CV-s. You can tell some people's skills from their KudoZ performance: they can't actually write well their own native language, forget the foreign one!!!!!!!!!!
Eva
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
I think that what the majority of us are asking for is that, if Proz.com is a site for "language professionals" (please read at the top of the home page), care be taken so that its contents also look professional.
An offer searching for "honest translators" where "honest" implies low rates, willingness to work on week-ends without charging extra, and not complaining about anything, among other questionable requests, seems to me very unprofessional.
[Edited at 2006-09-13 20:28] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I wonder why it is so hard for this to be understood | Sep 13, 2006 |
This site is whatever professionals like you and, I've no doubt to a lesser extent, me, make of it...
If you want a site exclusively for professionals, make it mandatory for everyone on this site to send in a copy of their degrees (preferably WITH test scores) and experience and let the site owners decide who gets to be part of this....in which case I would never be admitted because I couldn't be ar*** in uni to lift a finger. I'd be out of your hair before you were able to say "supercalif... See more This site is whatever professionals like you and, I've no doubt to a lesser extent, me, make of it...
If you want a site exclusively for professionals, make it mandatory for everyone on this site to send in a copy of their degrees (preferably WITH test scores) and experience and let the site owners decide who gets to be part of this....in which case I would never be admitted because I couldn't be ar*** in uni to lift a finger. I'd be out of your hair before you were able to say "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"
Look, I'm not trying to agitate anyone but:
To my knowledge everyone can become part of this community and, believe it or not, I like the idea...
and
EXAMPLE: Anarchy, as an idea, is just swell, but it would never work in real life...
One the one hand there are the people craving site-control and on the other hand people want the liberty to say whatever the f*** they want (pun intended)...
How do site admins cope with that? Next poll...
In the end I keep asking myself why I participate in discussions without clear answers...
Good night, you late-night translators, and good morning, early birds... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 21:42
| More clarifications | Sep 13, 2006 |
Eva T wrote:
Excuse me Rosa Maria Duenas Rios, but I do not think ProZ.com is the Policeman to tell people what to do or what to say in their request.
As far as honesty: /quote]
I never said the above, please do not put words in my mouth. However, Proz.com does have moderators who monitor what we say in these forums or what is posted in the jobs section. Also, I am trying to make a point about PROFESSIONALISM, not about honesty.
Dimitri Van Vossel wrote:
This site is whatever professionals like you and, I've no doubt to a lesser extent, me, make of it...
Well, Dimitri, I am very glad to see that at least we coincide in something! Good night to you!
PS: To Bonita, below: So how quick is quick? How much should we wait for before we take offense?
[Edited at 2006-09-13 22:51]
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| "Honest" was just an unfortunate choice of words... | Sep 13, 2006 |
I responded to this Job Posting and didn't take the word "honest" as seriously as so many other ProZ.com members seem to have taken it. I believe what the Job Poster was requesting was a "hard-working" translator (which I am, and proud of it) but probably, in a rush to post, just used the first word that came to mind.
Actually,"Workaholic" would probably have been a better word, and why can't a Job Posting request something like that? People are free to respond to Job Postings or n... See more I responded to this Job Posting and didn't take the word "honest" as seriously as so many other ProZ.com members seem to have taken it. I believe what the Job Poster was requesting was a "hard-working" translator (which I am, and proud of it) but probably, in a rush to post, just used the first word that came to mind.
Actually,"Workaholic" would probably have been a better word, and why can't a Job Posting request something like that? People are free to respond to Job Postings or not, according to what is right for them. This Job Posting was just right for me because I want more work, have no children living with me in the household anymore, and would rather be working than not, simply because I love it.
I think some people are just too quick to take offense. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 21:42
English to Spanish
+ ...
| To each their own | Sep 13, 2006 |
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
I think some people are just too quick to take offense.
I, on the other hand, think that dragging the profession through the mud, taking advantage of inexperienced/desperate/clueless translators, and in general throwing business ethics out the window is a big no-no.
--
Dyran
(who gets top dollar, applies overcharges for weekend work, and has no problem earning a fair amount of moola)
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 21:42
English to Spanish
+ ...
| One fish, two fish, blue fish, red fish | Sep 13, 2006 |
Dimitri Van Vossel wrote:
Look, I'm not trying to agitate anyone but:
To my knowledge everyone can become part of this community and, believe it or not, I like the idea...
I'm sure you do.
Admittedly, even bottom-feeders play a role in the big scheme of things.
Given the choice, though, I'd rather be at the top of the food chain.
--
Dyran
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 21:42
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
Dyran Altenburg wrote:
I, on the other hand, think that dragging the profession through the mud, taking advantage of inexperienced/desperate/clueless translators, and in general throwing business ethics out the window is a big no-no.
This is worth repeating.
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| Dragging the profession through the mud? Throwing business ethics out the window? | Sep 14, 2006 |
Dyran Altenburg wrote:
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
I think some people are just too quick to take offense.
I, on the other hand, think that dragging the profession through the mud, taking advantage of inexperienced/desperate/clueless translators, and in general throwing business ethics out the window is a big no-no.
--
Dyran
(who gets top dollar, applies overcharges for weekend work, and has no problem earning a fair amount of moola)
You need to expound on why you think the Job Posting in question was dragging the profession through the mud, taking advantage of inexperienced/desperate/clueless translators and in general throwing business ethics out the window. Unless you're an agency, a rate of USD0.07 (that's what 0.05 Euros is in American dollars, by the way) is a decent rate to get for translating, especially two languages that are so oversupplied anyway, like English and Spanish.
Oh, and by the way, very happy that you get top dollar and apply overcharges for the weekend, but it's unnecessary to say so in making your "point." It also implies that the Job Poster wouldn't pay surcharges for the weekend, which was never said in the post. You need to quit making assumptions without knowing the facts.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 00:42]
[Edited at 2006-09-14 00:43]
[Edited at 2006-09-15 04:05]
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 21:42
| Who is making assumptions here? | Sep 14, 2006 |
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Unless you're an agency, a rate of USD0.07 (that's what 0.05 Euros is in American dollars, by the way) is a decent rate to get for translating, especially two languages that are so oversupplied anyway, like English and Spanish.
You need to quit making assumptions without knowing the facts [/quote]
May I suggest you go back to the ad and read it again? The woman clearly stated that she would pay .05 euros to European translators, and US translators would get .05 US dollars.
But the above is beyond the point we are trying to make.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 01:17]
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