How should I refund the agency's Paypal payment? Thread poster: dd dd
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dd dd
Local time: 21:00
English to Chinese
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About a week ago, I got a job from a US agency, asking me to translate a book. I asked them to pay half of the money beforehand. They did.
Then I started hiring translators. I cannot do it all by myself. There are 60,000 words, and it needs to be delivered within a month.
Then after about 5 or 6 days. They called and said that the end client cancelled the job. I immediately offered to refund them the money (excluding the part that has already been translated. No ... See more About a week ago, I got a job from a US agency, asking me to translate a book. I asked them to pay half of the money beforehand. They did.
Then I started hiring translators. I cannot do it all by myself. There are 60,000 words, and it needs to be delivered within a month.
Then after about 5 or 6 days. They called and said that the end client cancelled the job. I immediately offered to refund them the money (excluding the part that has already been translated. No much. Only around 6,000 words.).
Since I have already withdrawn that money to my local bank account (in this process, I paid USD35 to Paypal and USD12 to the intermediary bank) and there is no money left in my Paypal account, I offered to let another of my clients in the US to pay her. She refused and said "no no no that's not ethical!"
Now she asks me to refund her by wire transfer. If I send her the money by bank transfer, will she still be able to ask Paypal to debit money from my Paypal account? I have a standard personal account, not a merchant account or premier account.
And, is it appropriate for me to charge some money for the time I spent on finding translators?
Any input will be appreciated. Thanks! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Money is usually refunded by the same method it was paid | Aug 27, 2009 |
Hi Laura,
It is usual to refund money through the same channel that you received it. Therefore you should also refund the money by PayPal. No, the client cannot simply take it out of your PayPal account, whatever type of account you have. That would technically be theft. The only circumstance in which a company of any kind can take money from your account is if you authorise them to do so, by signing a direct debit mandate.
You should not refund the entire amount, since... See more Hi Laura,
It is usual to refund money through the same channel that you received it. Therefore you should also refund the money by PayPal. No, the client cannot simply take it out of your PayPal account, whatever type of account you have. That would technically be theft. The only circumstance in which a company of any kind can take money from your account is if you authorise them to do so, by signing a direct debit mandate.
You should not refund the entire amount, since, obviously, you have meanwhile had some business expenses: 6,000 words have been translated, you have spent time finding translators (which would normally be worth an hourly fee if you are co-ordinating a project as project manager), and you have incurred PayPal bank charges.
Without further information, it is not possible to suggest whether project management fees are a legitimate expense. This would depend upon what you agreed with the agency, i.e. whether you simply accepted a job to do, as a translator, without mentioning that you would be sharing the work with colleagues, or whether you arranged with them to manage a project.
You will first of all have to transfer any money that you wish to refund from your bank account to your PayPal account. You will need to read the PayPal web site for details about how to do this.
Astrid ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I don't know the law but | Aug 27, 2009 |
I had a client that was able to recuperate a payment they made to me through Paypal, I can't remember if it was a two week or three week period that they were allowed to cancel the payment, but it was for a job that I had done and, of course, I ended up the loser. This is sort of an ebay thing, where they claim they didn't receive what they paid for.
| | | | Kroz Wado
Japan
Local time: 22:00
Japanese to English
| Best to stick to paypal even if it occurs extra charges. | Aug 27, 2009 |
Best to stick to paypal even if it occurs extra charges, contact paypal directly and explain the situation. It seems a bit risky otherwise imo.
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Nicole Schnell 
United States
Local time: 05:00
English to German
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In memoriam | @ Astrid: Why upload? | Aug 27, 2009 |
Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:
You will first of all have to transfer any money that you wish to refund from your bank account to your PayPal account.
Sorry, this is not correct. It is done automatically because a PayPal account is always linked to a bank account. As an outsourcer I make payments to our freelancers all the time, no matter what country they live in, and we never ever have to transfer money first.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:00
English to German
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In memoriam | @Lesley: They can and will recuperate money only if you don't take appropriate steps | Aug 27, 2009 |
Lesley Clarke wrote:
I had a client that was able to recuperate a payment they made to me through Paypal, I can't remember if it was a two week or three week period that they were allowed to cancel the payment, but it was for a job that I had done and, of course, I ended up the loser. This is sort of an ebay thing, where they claim they didn't receive what they paid for.
I had to deal with a small direct client recently who claimed that his account had been hacked. True or not (I don't care. The client was hopping happy with the translation and showered me with praise. The heck will I do in regard to paying money back.), nobody can touch your bank account as long as you react to emails such as:
"We are investigating a payment reversal. Case ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Hello Nicole Schnell,
Your buyer asked his or her bank to reverse the payment for the following
transaction:
Buyer's name: XXXXXXXXXX
Buyer's email: XXXXXXX@XXXXXXXX
Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction date: XXXXXX, 2009
Transaction amount: $XXXXXXX USD
Your transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXX
Case number: XXXXXXXXXXXX
We need additional information from you within the next 7 days. Please log
in to your PayPal account and go to the Resolution Center to see the
details of this case. There, you can enter any information regarding this
case that will help us fight the reversal on your behalf."
____________________________________________________
Of course, if you are lazy, you will receive a reminder:
"Second Reminder
Hello Nicole Schnell,
Recently we notified you that an unauthorized activity claim had been filed
against a transaction you received. You have four more calendar days to
respond to our request for additional information. After that, we will
continue our investigation without your input.
As a reminder, we are currently investigating the following transaction:
Buyer's name: XXXXXXXXXXX
Buyer's email: XXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXX
Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction date: XXXXXXX, 2009
Transaction amount: $XXXXXXX USD
Your transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Case number: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Please log in to your PayPal account at https://www.paypal.com and go to
the Resolution Center to view the details of this case and provide the
information we need from you.
Thanks for your cooperation through this process. We are continuing to work
to ensure that PayPal is secure for all users.
Sincerely,
PayPal
Protection Services Department"
___________________________________________________
Then you write a note in the forms provided (well organized on the PayPal website) why you are so absolutely not willing to pay any cent back. Provide proof.
Then PayPal will write:
"Resolution of case involving PayPal transaction XXXXXXXXX
Hello Nicole Schnell,
We have completed our investigation of the transaction below and were
unable to find evidence of unauthorized access to the buyer’s account. This
case was denied to the buyer and no funds were recovered from your account.
Buyer's name: XXXXXXXXXX
Buyer's email: XXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction date: XXXXXXXXX, 2009
Transaction amount: $XXXXXXXX USD
Your transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXX
Case number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
For additional information and to see the details of your claim, please log
in to your PayPal account at https://www.paypal.com/ and go to the
Resolution Center.
Buyer's name: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Buyer's email: XXXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Transaction date: XXXXXXXX, 2009
Transaction amount: $XXXXXX USD
Your transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Case number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Thanks for your cooperation through this process. We are continuing to work
to ensure that PayPal is secure for all users.
Sincerely,
PayPal
Protection Services Department"
__________________________________
Then sit back. Relax. Have a glas of wine.
Nobody can touch your accounts. However, if you don't react, they will take this as your permission.
| | | | | No cancellation fee? | Aug 27, 2009 |
As Astrid pointed out, the fact that the job was cancelled cost you money, not to mention any other jobs you might have turned down because you were booked with this one.
Don't you have a cancellation clause in your Terms of Sale? I charge the full amount for any work completed and 50% of any work ordered but not completed.
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 21:00
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Astrid, Leskey and Nicole, | Aug 27, 2009 |
I will allow Paypal to take a portion of the money back and refund it to the agency, but not the full amount.
I wonder if it is right for me to take some of the money as project management fee. I did tell the agency that I had found 2 translators to work with me.
Actually the original 2 translators did not work. I then have to continue looking for other translators. I reviewed many test translations, and finally found another three translators. Then one of them prov... See more I will allow Paypal to take a portion of the money back and refund it to the agency, but not the full amount.
I wonder if it is right for me to take some of the money as project management fee. I did tell the agency that I had found 2 translators to work with me.
Actually the original 2 translators did not work. I then have to continue looking for other translators. I reviewed many test translations, and finally found another three translators. Then one of them provided very poor quality work. I had to almost re-do it...
But anyway my problem is that there is currently no money in my Paypal account ...
[Edited at 2009-08-27 09:19 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-08-27 10:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| You can put money into your PayPal account | Aug 27, 2009 |
Hi Laura,
It should not be a problem that there is no money in your PayPal account. You will have to put some there. Transfer the same money - or a part of it - back, I guess.
Nicole says that a transfer back is not necessary in the USA, that it can be drawn from the associated bank account automatically. Here in Germany we have to transfer money from the associated bank account to PayPal, and it takes around 3 working days. However, you should be able to find the infor... See more Hi Laura,
It should not be a problem that there is no money in your PayPal account. You will have to put some there. Transfer the same money - or a part of it - back, I guess.
Nicole says that a transfer back is not necessary in the USA, that it can be drawn from the associated bank account automatically. Here in Germany we have to transfer money from the associated bank account to PayPal, and it takes around 3 working days. However, you should be able to find the information on the PayPal site for your country.
Astrid ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Just in the US | Aug 27, 2009 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:
You will first of all have to transfer any money that you wish to refund from your bank account to your PayPal account.
Sorry, this is not correct. It is done automatically because a PayPal account is always linked to a bank account. As an outsourcer I make payments to our freelancers all the time, no matter what country they live in, and we never ever have to transfer money first.
That's because you're in the US. Out here in the third world PayPal is credit card only.
| | | | | Thanks Nicole | Aug 28, 2009 |
But that wasn't what happened in my case, but it was a few years ago now, maybe they have changed their policy now.
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 21:00
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Sara, Andreas and everyone. | Aug 29, 2009 |
I am currently thinking of letting another agency pay my future translation fees directly to this agency.
If agency B in New York pays USD700 to Agency A in Monterey, CA, how much will the bank charges be?
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Geraldine Oudin (X)
United Kingdom
Japanese to French
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| Don't involve another agency | Aug 29, 2009 |
That doesn't sound a very professional way of proceeding to me.
This is between you and agency A, don't involve another client or you might give a bad impression...
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:00
English to German
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In memoriam | France-Japon is right. | Aug 29, 2009 |
France-Japon wrote:
That doesn't sound a very professional way of proceeding to me.
This is between you and agency A, don't involve another client or you might give a bad impression...
Also review the NDAs that you probably signed - crisscrossing payments might get you into big trouble.
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 21:00
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I went to the bank today and found out that the agency's money is still in my Paypal account.
I then came home and refunded the right amount of money back to them.
Settled. : )
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