| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | The Myth of the .04 Translator Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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Ken Fagan (X) 
Local time: 21:00
French to English
| On the other hand... | Feb 17, 2010 |
Just yesterday (16 Feb), a colleague forwarded to me the following job offer (N.B. many of you will recognise/be able to guess the agency):
"Hello and please excuse this mass mail. I have a large PT-EN translation job and we could really use your help!
This is a huge client with potential for large volume so please handle with care. ANY amount that you can take for the above deadlines will be very helpful so please let us know if you can take even 1 or 2 files.
... See more Just yesterday (16 Feb), a colleague forwarded to me the following job offer (N.B. many of you will recognise/be able to guess the agency):
"Hello and please excuse this mass mail. I have a large PT-EN translation job and we could really use your help!
This is a huge client with potential for large volume so please handle with care. ANY amount that you can take for the above deadlines will be very helpful so please let us know if you can take even 1 or 2 files.
The rate for this is $.035/word."
N.B. This agency is extremely well-known and is based in an expensive city in a highly-developed country. I dare not say more... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 21:00
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Michele Johnson wrote:
Have I understood this correctly? Basically, you wasted the time and effort of more than 60 people who applied for your fake job? Maybe it's just me, but this seems like a major red flag for your potential partners.
Well, it aint against ProZ.com rules either. It is not against the rules to post "potential" jobs and there is no requirement that the potential job should be a real job or an actual job. So I think even ProZ.com would allow this kind of test (but I'm not sure and I don't think we've ever had a firm yes or no from Staff about it).
New translators who want to know what to charge are often advised to contact other translators and ask for their rates. I have seen translators being encouraged to create bogus potential jobs and ask for quotes.
If anyone wants to feel less guilty about doing such a test, you can do the test every time you have actual work (that you have the client's permission to outsource). Then at least you can fool yourself into thinking "there is a chance that I might actually select one of the quotes, because this is an actual job".
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:00
English to Polish
+ ...
I'd feel uncomfortable posting a fake job. It's dishonest. When you ask a shop attendant about the price of grapefruit, all they have to do is open their mouth. Not submit an entire bid with a CV and a well-thought rate. And then you don't even tell the shop attendant if you're going to buy grapefruit from anyone.
Having said that, sharing the results with others, especially with me, is somewhat of a justification, so thanks Jeff.
| | | | | The other test for the .04 translator | Feb 17, 2010 |
Jeff,
Your experiment's conclusion is limited to say that no translator unprompted will quote less than 7¢.
To lure the 4¢ translators out of the closet, you'd have to phrase your job ad like this:
Due to causes beyond our control, our budget for this translation is limited to 5¢/word. Though this is below our usual standards, we will be unable to pay more this time. So ki... See more Jeff,
Your experiment's conclusion is limited to say that no translator unprompted will quote less than 7¢.
To lure the 4¢ translators out of the closet, you'd have to phrase your job ad like this:
Due to causes beyond our control, our budget for this translation is limited to 5¢/word. Though this is below our usual standards, we will be unable to pay more this time. So kindly refrain from bidding if you are unable to work for this price. Actually, lower rates will increase your likelihod of being assigned this project, as well as many future ones at better pay." ▲ Collapse
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| Well done, Jeff | Feb 17, 2010 |
Thanks for this pick-me-up, Jeff. I love your Mum's quote at the end. We need to hear more of this.
| | | | | The .04 agency does exist... | Feb 17, 2010 |
...I just turn down a large-ish job because of the rate, exactly 0.04 euros... There was no way they could adapt more to my usual rate, so...
| | | | Lucas Rayel
Brazil
Local time: 17:00
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| I agree with José | Feb 17, 2010 |
I don't think people will sell their work at low rates if you don't force them to do it, specifying a maximum rate per sw.
Also, I like your mom. Mine always end up asking "what's the name of your profession? I've forgotten" when talking to her friends and I'm around. Haha
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 14:00
Greek to English
+ ...
| When you want to buiy a car... | Feb 17, 2010 |
"Have I understood this correctly? Basically, you wasted the time and effort of more than 60 people who applied for your fake job?"
When you want to buy a car, then you could go to 10 different dealerships, and ask a lot of questions, even drive the car for a while ("test drive"). Is this a "waste of time"?
As a matter of fact, dealerships WANT you to go there EVEN IF you don't want to buy anything. Any exposure is better than nothing.
When you want ... See more "Have I understood this correctly? Basically, you wasted the time and effort of more than 60 people who applied for your fake job?"
When you want to buy a car, then you could go to 10 different dealerships, and ask a lot of questions, even drive the car for a while ("test drive"). Is this a "waste of time"?
As a matter of fact, dealerships WANT you to go there EVEN IF you don't want to buy anything. Any exposure is better than nothing.
When you want to buy a mobile phone, you go to 5 different stores and ask questions.
Not only individuals, but also large corporations do these things on a daily basis. Why shouldn't translators get some information from this "secretive" market?
ALSO: many translation agencies have an option on their webpages inviting people to submit their documents to get a quote. They also say that "there is no obligation to buy".
Do you always reply "what a waste of time" everty time you don't get the job for which you quoted?
Carry on Jeff, good job. And I would also suggest to as many as possible to ask prices from agencies.
You have every right to test the market and get information. It's vital. ▲ Collapse
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 14:00
Greek to English
+ ...
"Well, it aint against ProZ.com rules either."
Proz rules are absolutely nothing and they only apply for proz.com. Outside of proz they have no validity whatsoever. Proz is just a website. There are mllions of websites.
Jeff clearly stated that he did NOT use proz for this. He can do as he pleases as long as he respects the law. Jeff lives in a free country as far as this issue is concerned and he wanted to gather information about his business. Totally legitimat... See more "Well, it aint against ProZ.com rules either."
Proz rules are absolutely nothing and they only apply for proz.com. Outside of proz they have no validity whatsoever. Proz is just a website. There are mllions of websites.
Jeff clearly stated that he did NOT use proz for this. He can do as he pleases as long as he respects the law. Jeff lives in a free country as far as this issue is concerned and he wanted to gather information about his business. Totally legitimate.
Yesterday I was browsing Honda's website and I asked a couple of questions from their tech support. I am NOT planning to buy another car right now. Was that bad? Why on earth do they have the website anyway...
"Basically, you wasted the time and effort of more than 60 people who applied for your fake job? Maybe it's just me, but this seems like a major red flag for your potential partners. "
Their time is much more wasted if they keep on working for 3 cents per word for 40 years. More efforts like Jeff's will give them good information on how to avoid wasting time with 3 cents per word. The real translation prices in the market have fallen (inflation adjusted) 60% over the last 12 years. Isn't that a worse waste of time?
To Ken:
Ask them more, they always give it. As a matter of fact they always raise the prices until the find enough translators to do the job. Rates in emails are "efforts". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 12:00
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | question to Ken | Feb 17, 2010 |
Ken Fagan wrote:
Just yesterday (16 Feb), a colleague forwarded to me the following job offer
Please don't start throwing rocks at me folks but I HAVE TO ask!
Ken - in getting more well-paying jobs, does it help that you look *exactly* like George Clooney?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 21:00
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| OT: using film stars for avatars | Feb 17, 2010 |
ildiko wrote:
Ken - in getting more well-paying jobs, does it help that you look *exactly* like George Clooney?
A similar question was asked of a guy whose avatar was some other film star. He said that he had used his real photo for an avatar for a while, but found that he got more jobs when he used a photo of some well-known person (as his avatar).
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:00
Flemish to English
+ ...
| Cost-calculation | Feb 18, 2010 |
Nobody can be officially registered, pay taxes, pay a mortgage, buy a car, maintain a family and be a full time 0.04 translator. It just does not add up.
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Williamson wrote:
Nobody can be officially registered, pay taxes, pay a mortgage, buy a car, maintain a family and be a full time 0.04 translator. It just does not add up.
if you don't pay taxes, don't have a mortgage, don't have a car and don't have a family...
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 14:00
Greek to English
+ ...
Nobody can be officially registered, pay taxes, pay a mortgage, buy a car, maintain a family and be a full time 0.04 translator. It just does not add up.
I have said it in the past, just look at the average age of proz members. Eventually prices will go to a level corresponding to the translator who:
- lives with mom and dad and will never leave them (unless the future spouse is generous)
- doesn't have a car (how many proz members have their own car?)
... See more Nobody can be officially registered, pay taxes, pay a mortgage, buy a car, maintain a family and be a full time 0.04 translator. It just does not add up.
I have said it in the past, just look at the average age of proz members. Eventually prices will go to a level corresponding to the translator who:
- lives with mom and dad and will never leave them (unless the future spouse is generous)
- doesn't have a car (how many proz members have their own car?)
- is not officially registered (most are not, in my experience)
- if married, then spouse is the breadwinner
Five year ago I was talking about a 50% down. Unfortunately I was correct (don't you hate it when bad predictions become true) - most of it due to inflation.
I predict another 10% down until the end of 2010 and another 10% for 2011.
Of course some jobs will still be paid well, but these will be only 10-15% of the market. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Italy
| don't you hate it when bad predictions become true | Feb 18, 2010 |
I don't hate you Eleftherios, but for sure I touch wood when I see a post of yours ...
;-D
with favour
Claudio
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