URSSAF attestation for UK-based translator? Thread poster: Stephanie Kantorski
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Hi,
A UK-based translator friend received a request from a French translation agency he works that threatened to withhold any further payments until he provided that agency proof of tax payments in the UK. The agency claims that it is an URSSAF requirement for ALL their translators, wherever they are based in the world.
Has anyone ever heard of this happening? Why would the URSSAF (social security payment collectors in France) legally be able to collect this information... See more Hi,
A UK-based translator friend received a request from a French translation agency he works that threatened to withhold any further payments until he provided that agency proof of tax payments in the UK. The agency claims that it is an URSSAF requirement for ALL their translators, wherever they are based in the world.
Has anyone ever heard of this happening? Why would the URSSAF (social security payment collectors in France) legally be able to collect this information from workers not based in France?
Also, wouldn't it be illegal for the agency to withhold payment for any reason for work already completed and invoiced?
Thanks for any help you can provide! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Martine Soulet (X) 
France
Local time: 07:45
English to French
+ ...
| URSSAF attestation | Jun 30, 2011 |
Hello,
It's happened regularly to me that some agencies ask me for this attestation. In France, it's quite easy to get it but I don't know how you can get it in your own country.
However, I find it strange they threaten not to pay anymore as long as the work has been done, delivered and invoiced and I don't remember having been threatened this way for this reason. In general, this attestation is asked for only in the aim to prove that you are a legal freelance and that you ar... See more Hello,
It's happened regularly to me that some agencies ask me for this attestation. In France, it's quite easy to get it but I don't know how you can get it in your own country.
However, I find it strange they threaten not to pay anymore as long as the work has been done, delivered and invoiced and I don't remember having been threatened this way for this reason. In general, this attestation is asked for only in the aim to prove that you are a legal freelance and that you aren't part of the black economy. I thought it concerned only people living in France and I don't understand why they ask you if you don't live in France.
Sorry I don't really answer your question and I hope you'll find a solution.
Best
Martine ▲ Collapse
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:45
Flemish to English
+ ...
| URSSAF has no authority outside France. | Jun 30, 2011 |
It only concerns people living in France.
In the U.K., either you have an N.I. or you operate as a ltd. (limited company).
In the U.S., you have a social security number or you operate as a llp?
So, I don't see the point of French agencies asking for an URSSAF-attestation, as the URSSAF has no authority outside France.
[Edited at 2011-06-30 10:44 GMT]
| | | | NMR (X)
France
Local time: 07:45
French to Dutch
+ ...
As Martine says, you have to prove that you are a legal freelancer: Urssaf attestation for those who live in France, another attestation that you pay social security contributions in your country for those who live abroad. The French company has to submit these attestations, if they don't they can be considered guilty of illegal employment. They cannot hire someone who isn't registered, in France or elsewhere.
Some agencies, in order to avoid problems (translators can disappear, or simply ... See more As Martine says, you have to prove that you are a legal freelancer: Urssaf attestation for those who live in France, another attestation that you pay social security contributions in your country for those who live abroad. The French company has to submit these attestations, if they don't they can be considered guilty of illegal employment. They cannot hire someone who isn't registered, in France or elsewhere.
Some agencies, in order to avoid problems (translators can disappear, or simply move from one country to another) ask this attestation before sending the first translation to their external translators.
[Edited at 2011-06-30 16:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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nordiste
France
Local time: 07:45
English to French
+ ...
| To prevoid illegal work in France | Jun 30, 2011 |
In France it is a legal requirement for any outsourcer to check that their service providers are legally registered as freelancers BEFORE doing any work with them.
In fact it is not a URSSAF requirement (URSSAF just collects the social taxes in France) - it is a legal requirement to prevoid illegal work. The "attestation URSSAF" is used as a proof of registration with the French tax and social authorities.
I suppose the agency should be happy with any tax registration n... See more In France it is a legal requirement for any outsourcer to check that their service providers are legally registered as freelancers BEFORE doing any work with them.
In fact it is not a URSSAF requirement (URSSAF just collects the social taxes in France) - it is a legal requirement to prevoid illegal work. The "attestation URSSAF" is used as a proof of registration with the French tax and social authorities.
I suppose the agency should be happy with any tax registration number or VAT certificate that you can send them.
In other countries they ask for a tax certificate, as in Spain. There is no unique European procedure yet...
Here is an example of required document for a call for tender from a French organisation when the service provider is not in France
"Sous-traitant établi à l’étranger
- un document mentionnant le numéro de TVA intracommunautaire
- les certificats de détachement de mes salariés prouvant le maintien de la protection sociale de leur pays d’origine
(formulaire E 101 pour une entreprise établie dans un Etat de l’Union européenne) ou une attestation, datant de moins de 6
mois, de fourniture de déclarations sociales émanant de l’URSSAF
- un document émanant des autorités tenant le registre professionnel ou un document équivalent certifiant cette inscription
- si le sous-traitant n’est pas établi dans un pays de l’Union européenne, un document mentionnant l’identité et l’adresse du
représentant du sous-traitant auprès de l’administration fiscale française"
[Edited at 2011-06-30 10:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:45
Flemish to English
+ ...
| N.I. or Registration Number at Companies House? | Jun 30, 2011 |
nordiste wrote:
"Sous-traitant établi à l’étranger
- un document mentionnant le numéro de TVA intracommunautaire
UK-threshold: the equivalent of about 80.000 euros.
Exemption de TVA dans le Royaume-Uni: environs 80.000 euros.
nordiste wrote:
- les certificats de détachement de mes salariés prouvant le maintien de la protection sociale de leur pays d’origine (formulaire E 101 pour une entreprise établie dans un Etat de l’Union européenne) ou une attestation, datant de moins de 6 mois, de fourniture de déclarations sociales émanant de l’URSSAF
=For employees on secondment.
- un document émanant des autorités tenant le registre professionnel ou un document équivalent certifiant cette inscription
Which means the National Insurance number if you work as a freelancer or the registration certificate of Companies House if you operate as a company?
CH is the official register of all companies in the UK.
[Edited at 2011-06-30 14:43 GMT]
| | | | | A little more confused... | Jun 30, 2011 |
Thanks everyone for your replies, it's nice to know what other people are experiencing!
While I am asking this question for someone in the UK, I am in the US and there is no "official freelancer" status here. I pay my federal and state taxes like an individual and deduct business expenses, but I do not need to register as a business. My social security number is my "tax" number, and I certainly wouldn't give that to anyone in France.
I am sure the laws around the world ... See more Thanks everyone for your replies, it's nice to know what other people are experiencing!
While I am asking this question for someone in the UK, I am in the US and there is no "official freelancer" status here. I pay my federal and state taxes like an individual and deduct business expenses, but I do not need to register as a business. My social security number is my "tax" number, and I certainly wouldn't give that to anyone in France.
I am sure the laws around the world vary widely and the "certificates" would come in from everywhere for an international translation agency - in many different languages. It would make sense these papers are not for the URSSAF or they would probably be asking for them to be officially translated into French - right? Otherwise, they would be useless to a French government administration.
So, what I am gathering is:
- it is not required by URSSAF
- agencies do it to protect themselves
- the certificate is not required to be translated into French
- the certificate could be any number of document(s) and that is not clear.
And, perhaps most importantly, they cannot withhold payment for this reason.
I looked at the French legislation cited here, but it still isn't very clear to me...
If anyone has any other info, much appreciated ▲ Collapse
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