| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Why are free translation tests tolerated by translators? Thread poster: Jean Fulbert Hervé Eboumeyeng
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| Only at my regular rate | Aug 3, 2016 |
I only do tests at my regular rate, not for free.
An outsourcer who is really interested by my profil does accept that.
Otherwise there are enough samples with my name online if someone wants to have a look at my work.
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Andrea Halbritter wrote:
I only do tests at my regular rate, not for free.
An outsourcer who is really interested by my profil does accept that.
Otherwise there are enough samples with my name online if someone wants to have a look at my work.
... and plenty of great feedback on Proz.com
| | | | | talking of which | Aug 4, 2016 |
Last night I got an e-mail offering to pay me for a translation test --- all of $5.00 (five dollars) --- and with a deadline attached of two hours. Time of receipt: 1:00 a.m. I sort of shook my head as I reached for the delete button before heading off to bed.
| | | | MK2010 
United States
Local time: 09:54
Member (2017)
French to English
+ ...
| I don't see what the big deal is | Aug 4, 2016 |
You're a translator, there's this big agency or client you want to work for. They want to see if you can do the job. Hence, a test.
If you were an agency, and let's say you just landed a big contract with a federal department, such as the U.S. army or other: wouldn't you want to test your potential translators with sample material specific to this particular contract? It's like an interview. A half-hour of your time could land you a client that gives you work for years to come.
... See more You're a translator, there's this big agency or client you want to work for. They want to see if you can do the job. Hence, a test.
If you were an agency, and let's say you just landed a big contract with a federal department, such as the U.S. army or other: wouldn't you want to test your potential translators with sample material specific to this particular contract? It's like an interview. A half-hour of your time could land you a client that gives you work for years to come.
It's worked for me many times. In fact, all my biggest clients at the moment, who give me work every month and in some cases every week, asked to test my skills when we first started out. As they should have, and as I would have if I were them.
I work in several fields, but in the one I do the most work, graphic novels, all the translation degrees in the world wouldn't make an ounce of difference. The question is, do you have absolute native fluency in both languages so as to translate deceptively simple material in a way that rings true? Oh, you say you do? Well let's just see. Here are a few pages. Show me what you can do.
Perfectly normal procedure if you ask me.
Certainly, anyone ever hoping to work for a major federal or international agency is going to have to go through a whole battery of tests. Again: perfectly normal, no? Does anyone end up working for the UN without having to take any tests? Doubtful.
Get over it. ▲ Collapse
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Dulz (X)
Germany
French to German
+ ...
| free tests are ok | Aug 4, 2016 |
I always offer a free translation test (up to 300 words) to new clients. The reason is simple: It works very well for me. I've "passed" every single translation test I've done so far and in almost all cases, I was given translation jobs afterwards.
| | | | Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 09:54
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
Moderator of this forum
I agree with MK2010 and Andrea H.
It goes both ways, in fact. I've offered to do tests for free (up to 300 words as well), and some I charge a flat fee (not necessarily at my usual rate). The reason is pretty simple. Sometimes they ask me to do tests at a super tight timeline and the material garners a wage, IMO. I charge them a rate which I think makes it worth my while. They accept it (or not). As simple as that. I've had agencies who give me speeches on why I should NOT charge th... See more I agree with MK2010 and Andrea H.
It goes both ways, in fact. I've offered to do tests for free (up to 300 words as well), and some I charge a flat fee (not necessarily at my usual rate). The reason is pretty simple. Sometimes they ask me to do tests at a super tight timeline and the material garners a wage, IMO. I charge them a rate which I think makes it worth my while. They accept it (or not). As simple as that. I've had agencies who give me speeches on why I should NOT charge them, but I've also had agencies who accept it without shooting back 5 emails to ask me why.
It's simply the nature of the business. People want to give you a test to ensure that they can trust you, that they can fully believe in you having the credentials you so claim. Outsourcers who are really interested have always complied with my terms - i.e. either charging them for the test, OR agreeing to a certain word count and a certain time for delivery of the test.
If you don't like the approach a certain agency is taking in order to include you as part of their supplier database, just don't be a supplier with them. Move on and work with other companies/agencies. ▲ Collapse
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MK2010 wrote:
You're a translator, there's this big agency or client you want to work for. They want to see if you can do the job. Hence, a test.
If you were an agency, and let's say you just landed a big contract with a federal department, such as the U.S. army or other: wouldn't you want to test your potential translators with sample material specific to this particular contract? It's like an interview. A half-hour of your time could land you a client that gives you work for years to come.
It's worked for me many times. In fact, all my biggest clients at the moment, who give me work every month and in some cases every week, asked to test my skills when we first started out. As they should have, and as I would have if I were them.
I work in several fields, but in the one I do the most work, graphic novels, all the translation degrees in the world wouldn't make an ounce of difference. The question is, do you have absolute native fluency in both languages so as to translate deceptively simple material in a way that rings true? Oh, you say you do? Well let's just see. Here are a few pages. Show me what you can do.
Perfectly normal procedure if you ask me.
Certainly, anyone ever hoping to work for a major federal or international agency is going to have to go through a whole battery of tests. Again: perfectly normal, no? Does anyone end up working for the UN without having to take any tests? Doubtful.
Get over it.
Tests also worked for me many times and I got one of my biggest clients thanks to a translation test. I exceptionally accepted their test because it was a well-established company known all over the world. Moreover, I successfully took their translation test at the beginning of my career while applying for an in-house position. Only the immigration laws in force in the country in which they were based prevented me from getting that job. I’am talking here about technical translation, not literary translation and related fields. Why should a translator with formal translation training and track records in his/her technical field be required to take a free translation test? What is the guarantee that the test will be fairly assessed by competent translators/reviewers and lead to real jobs or at least be followed by a convincing failure feedback with unquestionable corrections? How many words would you have translated for free after 10 or 20 tests? I and the majority of translators here complain about time wasting and scams. My first big client contacted me and asked me to take a test. I refused. Then, they came back promising that the test was part of their project and sent me some reference translated material in the target language. It was a golden opportunity for me as I quickly reviewed the translated material, using the Track changes function in Word, and noted down many mistakes (spelling, typographical, etc.). I sent them the file back with some samples of my work and questioned the competence of the reviewer who would have assessed my test. They finally assigned the project to me without any translation test and we had a fruitful collaboration for years. Using this example, I want to point out the necessity for translator associations and websites to set up rules regarding free translation tests. After all, we are also consumers. I hardly have the opportunity to test the services and products I pay for. At most, there are already made samples. When I notice that I paid for a poor service, I simply stop hiring this service provider. There is no business without risks. Why should translators bear all the risks? Free test advocates forget to talk about bad payers. By starting collaborating with a new client, the translator already takes the risk of working and not be paid. Then, s/he has to take a free test without any guarantee of actual work or convincing failure feedback. Why?
[Edited at 2016-08-04 11:37 GMT]
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Tests also worked for me many times and I got one of my biggest clients thanks to a translation test. I exceptionally accepted their test because it was a well-established company known all over the world. Moreover, I successfully took their translation test at the beginning of my career while applying for an in-house position. Only the immigration laws in force in the country in which they were based prevented me from getting that job. I’am talking here about technical translation, not liter... See more Tests also worked for me many times and I got one of my biggest clients thanks to a translation test. I exceptionally accepted their test because it was a well-established company known all over the world. Moreover, I successfully took their translation test at the beginning of my career while applying for an in-house position. Only the immigration laws in force in the country in which they were based prevented me from getting that job. I’am talking here about technical translation, not literary translation and related fields. Why should a translator with formal translation training and track records in his/her technical field be required to take a free translation test? What is the guarantee that the test will be fairly assessed by competent translators/reviewers and lead to real jobs or at least be followed by a convincing failure feedback with unquestionable corrections? How many words would you have translated for free after 10 or 20 tests? I and the majority of translators here complain about time wasting and scams. My first big client contacted me and asked me to take a test. I refused. Then, they came back promising that the test was part of their project and sent me some reference translated material in the target language. It was a golden opportunity for me as I quickly reviewed the translated material, using the Track changes function in Word, and noted down many mistakes (spelling, typographical, etc.). I sent them the file back with some samples of my work and questioned the competence of the reviewer who would have assessed my test. They finally assigned the project to me without any translation test and we had a fruitful collaboration for years. Using this example, I want to point out the necessity for translator associations and websites to set up rules regarding free translation tests. After all, we are also consumers. I hardly have the opportunity to test the services and products I pay for. At most, there are already made samples. When I notice that I paid for a poor service, I simply stop hiring this service provider. There is no business without risks. Why should translators bear all the risks? Free test advocates forget to talk about bad payers. By starting collaborating with a new client, the translator already takes the risk of working and not be paid. Then, he has to take a free test without any guarantee of actual work or convincing failure feedback. Why? ▲ Collapse
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Edith Kelly
Switzerland
Local time: 15:54
Member
German to English
+ ...
jeanherv wrote:
Tests also worked for me many times and I got one of my biggest clients thanks to a translation test. I exceptionally accepted their test because it was a well-established company known all over the world. Moreover, I successfully took their translation test at the beginning of my career while applying for an in-house position. Only the immigration laws in force in the country in which they were based prevented me from getting that job. I’am talking here about technical translation, not literary translation and related fields. Why should a translator with formal translation training and track records in his/her technical field be required to take a free translation test? What is the guarantee that the test will be fairly assessed by competent translators/reviewers and lead to real jobs or at least be followed by a convincing failure feedback with unquestionable corrections? How many words would you have translated for free after 10 or 20 tests? I and the majority of translators here complain about time wasting and scams. My first big client contacted me and asked me to take a test. I refused. Then, they came back promising that the test was part of their project and sent me some reference translated material in the target language. It was a golden opportunity for me as I quickly reviewed the translated material, using the Track changes function in Word, and noted down many mistakes (spelling, typographical, etc.). I sent them the file back with some samples of my work and questioned the competence of the reviewer who would have assessed my test. They finally assigned the project to me without any translation test and we had a fruitful collaboration for years. Using this example, I want to point out the necessity for translator associations and websites to set up rules regarding free translation tests. After all, we are also consumers. I hardly have the opportunity to test the services and products I pay for. At most, there are already made samples. When I notice that I paid for a poor service, I simply stop hiring this service provider. There is no business without risks. Why should translators bear all the risks? Free test advocates forget to talk about bad payers. By starting collaborating with a new client, the translator already takes the risk of working and not be paid. Then, he has to take a free test without any guarantee of actual work or convincing failure feedback. Why?
Sheila,
a reviewer of test translations does not change anything - just gives an opinion on the quality of the translation. You mix this up with a reviser/proofreader. So please, don't tell me that reviewers change things for the sake of changing. It's just giving an opinion.
| | | | | Reviewer/Reviser/Proofreader | Aug 4, 2016 |
EdithK wrote:
jeanherv wrote:
Tests also worked for me many times and I got one of my biggest clients thanks to a translation test. I exceptionally accepted their test because it was a well-established company known all over the world. Moreover, I successfully took their translation test at the beginning of my career while applying for an in-house position. Only the immigration laws in force in the country in which they were based prevented me from getting that job. I’am talking here about technical translation, not literary translation and related fields. Why should a translator with formal translation training and track records in his/her technical field be required to take a free translation test? What is the guarantee that the test will be fairly assessed by competent translators/reviewers and lead to real jobs or at least be followed by a convincing failure feedback with unquestionable corrections? How many words would you have translated for free after 10 or 20 tests? I and the majority of translators here complain about time wasting and scams. My first big client contacted me and asked me to take a test. I refused. Then, they came back promising that the test was part of their project and sent me some reference translated material in the target language. It was a golden opportunity for me as I quickly reviewed the translated material, using the Track changes function in Word, and noted down many mistakes (spelling, typographical, etc.). I sent them the file back with some samples of my work and questioned the competence of the reviewer who would have assessed my test. They finally assigned the project to me without any translation test and we had a fruitful collaboration for years. Using this example, I want to point out the necessity for translator associations and websites to set up rules regarding free translation tests. After all, we are also consumers. I hardly have the opportunity to test the services and products I pay for. At most, there are already made samples. When I notice that I paid for a poor service, I simply stop hiring this service provider. There is no business without risks. Why should translators bear all the risks? Free test advocates forget to talk about bad payers. By starting collaborating with a new client, the translator already takes the risk of working and not be paid. Then, he has to take a free test without any guarantee of actual work or convincing failure feedback. Why?
Sheila,
a reviewer of test translations does not change anything - just gives an opinion on the quality of the translation. You mix this up with a reviser/proofreader. So please, don't tell me that reviewers change things for the sake of changing. It's just giving an opinion.
Reviewer/Reviser/Proofreader, these terms are used interchangeably by outsourcers. I have worked as a reviewer many times and my duty was to improve the quality of the translation and not to give a mere opinion. The work has been assigned and the term used by a world leader in the translation industry. If I'am wrong, I'am not sure they are too. I mainly see a difference between reviser and proofreader, but it is not the issue discussed here...
[Edited at 2016-08-04 11:32 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:54
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| We all have opinions. | Aug 4, 2016 |
I am also giving my opinion, I state what I saw. Reviewers largely over-review, can't see the wood from the trees and have trouble relating functionality of words to the project behind the content, they just focus on one word at a time instead having a very narrow contextual and verbal focus. This is what I saw while supervising reviewer's work, in 95% of cases (in freelance arena).
[Edited at 2016-08-04 10:48 GMT]
| | | | | Works sometimes | Aug 4, 2016 |
MK2010 wrote:
It's worked for me many times. In fact, all my biggest clients at the moment, who give me work every month and in some cases every week, asked to test my skills when we first started out. As they should have, and as I would have if I were them.
For me it worked sometimes, other times I just wasted my time as these very agencies expected to pay low rates and had silly conditions. For some of my clients I had done tests, but generally not for my better clients.
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 14:54
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Never, ever do a free test before agreeing rates | Aug 4, 2016 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
For me it worked sometimes, other times I just wasted my time as these very agencies expected to pay low rates and had silly conditions.
It doesn't make any sense at all to do one for an outsourcer if they haven't already agreed to your rate (or you've agreed to theirs if that's the way you work). A few will be very devious about it and gloss over that bit and so waste your time. I got caught that way a few times and it's why I absolutely insist on an unambiguous acceptance before spending any more of my time on them. If they then send work at half my rate, I come down on them like a ton of bricks, although in the end there's nothing much that can be done except let off steam. You should be able to sue people for wasting your time but I can't see it happening.
| | | | | Time wasters. Is someone up for creating an alternative to the 'Blue Board' for reporting them? | Aug 4, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
You should be able to sue people for wasting your time but I can't see it happening.
Absolutely; many of us would be millionaires
I was wondering, does anything like this (Blue Board-like service that allows comments about the testing process, excessive time wasting, agencies agreeing to one rate during the testing process only to come back later with a lower rate, etc.) already exist? IMHO it is a crucial piece missing from the Blue Board.
If it doesn't exist, perhaps someone is up for creating an alternative to the 'Blue Board' for this purpose or adding this feature to their agency rating system?
About free tests: I don't offer free tests anymore, I just don't have the time. However, I would consider a very short test (100-150 words) in extraordinary circumstances, i.e., for an agency I've been working with for a long time.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:54
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TranslateThis wrote:
About free tests: I don't offer free tests anymore, I just don't have the time. However, I would consider a very short test (100-150 words) in extraordinary circumstances, i.e., for an agency I've been working with for a long time.
I would generally do little free services for steady and good customers, like some extra editing etc. But my steady and good customers rarely or almost never ask for it. It's the total newbies who offer super low rates that regularly ask for free services of various kinds
Contrary to experiences of many colleagues here, I have never had a quality or fruitful/long-lasting relationship resulting form passing a free test, if any project occurred at all on a rare occasion. In most instances I was offered zero projects, but when I was indeed offered a project it was short-term and usually coupled with complications regarding rates, late payment, rude attitude, unfavorable file types, etc. So, from my side, it's a huge NO to free tests.
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