| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you think that the majority of native speakers of your first language(s) speak it/them correctly? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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[quote]Christine Andersen wrote:
The way the natives speak the language is the correct way to speak it!
But I can see everyone who has answered so far is a native of a language that never has had a single definitive form and has no Academy or other authority to determine how it should be spoken.
On the other hand, I have numerous treatises just in my modest collection discussing how it is spoken... or written. The scholarly ones are descriptive, while Lynn Truss tries to correct us all and David Crystal explains why we will always try and never succeed...
I so agree with Christine,
And don't forget that the English language has a lot of legitimate variants:
British, Australian, American... and many more.
Just like French learned and spoken in France is different from the French spoken in Canada.
But language is a living entity, and this should stop us from becoming snobbish!
[Edited at 2014-06-28 13:45 GMT]
| | | | | On the contrary! | Jun 28, 2014 |
LilianNekipelov wrote:
The question should have been formulated in a different way.
I think this is a wonderful question: the way it has been formulated is exactly what is bringing out this rich variety of answers - and understandings.
And yes, that "should" be 'ways of understanding', but I'm a native English speaker and will be playing with language until the day I die. In fact, I've become militant about it since living in France, where language is taken much too seriously to be played with (especially by foreigners - Heaven forbid!).
[Edited at 2014-06-28 16:37 GMT]
| | | | David Wright 
Austria
Local time: 22:39
German to English
+ ...
| If the majority of the poeple speak it incorrectly, | Jun 28, 2014 |
then wrong must be right. How else can you define correctness in a language? Rules laid down how many years ago? And which language/dialect/idiolect. Let's get away from the dreadful idea that a persopn is speaking a language incorrectly if he speaks like everyone else but breaks a set of (probably arbitrary) rules.
WE might want to say we don't like a particular way of speaking, but that doesn't make it wrong (morfe likely it reflects a certain snobishness - "I speak correctly, you... See more then wrong must be right. How else can you define correctness in a language? Rules laid down how many years ago? And which language/dialect/idiolect. Let's get away from the dreadful idea that a persopn is speaking a language incorrectly if he speaks like everyone else but breaks a set of (probably arbitrary) rules.
WE might want to say we don't like a particular way of speaking, but that doesn't make it wrong (morfe likely it reflects a certain snobishness - "I speak correctly, you speak a variant, he speaks incorrectly") ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
Max Deryagin wrote:
Is there an "incorrect" way to speak your mother tongue?
Well, I spent 4 years of a Russian degree course learning "пойдем" was "let's go" and when I eventually went to Russia almost everyone said "пошли" instead...
And in my own Glasgow dialect, "going the messages" is "going shopping" in English...
[Edited at 2014-06-28 14:33 GMT]
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| Sure--in a way. | Jun 28, 2014 |
Victoria Britten wrote: LilianNekipelov wrote:
The question should have been formulated in a different way.
I think this is a wonderful question: the way it has been formulated is exactly what is bringing out this rich variety of answers - and understandings. And yes, that "should" be 'ways of understanding', but I'm a native English speaker and will be playing with language until the day I die. In fact, I've become militant about it since living in France, where language is taken much too seriously to be played with (especially by foreigners - Heaven forbid!)
Yes, you are right. English, in my experience, is a much freer language, in a sense, than other languages might be, especially in its spoken form--millions of idiolects.
Polish, and especially Russian, are much more standard--people speak more or less standard language--not too many regional or socially marked differences (of course there are some, but nothing compared to English.
I imagine standard French--from France must be more uniform, too compared to English--even from Britain. As to the foreigners--what type of foreigners have you got in France?
[Edited at 2014-06-28 15:08 GMT]
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neilmac wrote: Max Deryagin wrote:
Is there an "incorrect" way to speak your mother tongue? Well, I spent 4 years of a Russian degree course learning "пойдем" was "let's go" and when I eventually went to Russia almost everyone said "пошли" instead... And in my own Glasgow dialect, "going the messages" is "going shopping" in English...
"пошли" is kind of rude--borderline rude, or colloquial in the least.
| | | | Max Deryagin
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:39
Member (2013)
English to Russian
LilianNekipelov wrote: neilmac wrote: Max Deryagin wrote:
Is there an "incorrect" way to speak your mother tongue? Well, I spent 4 years of a Russian degree course learning "пойдем" was "let's go" and when I eventually went to Russia almost everyone said "пошли" instead... And in my own Glasgow dialect, "going the messages" is "going shopping" in English... "пошли" is kind of rude--borderline rude, or colloquial in the least.
Informal and colloquial, but not rude at all.
| | | | | Well, you cannot say it any formal situation -- | Jun 28, 2014 |
this is what I meant--if used in the wrong context, it may sound rude: "пойдем" is more polite.
[Edited at 2014-06-28 17:42 GMT]
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Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 14:39
English to Spanish
+ ...
No, and their writing skills are worse.
| | | | | When they are professional linquists.... | Jun 28, 2014 |
... then yes. More importantly, they write correctly. For the population at large, there are too many variables. Which level of language, in which kind of context and milieu?
| | | | Max Deryagin
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:39
Member (2013)
English to Russian
LilianNekipelov wrote:
this is what I meant--if used in the wrong context, it may sound rude: "пойдем" is more polite.
The word "пойдем" is also informal, and it also may sound rude. The formal (and polite) version is "пойдемте".
| | | | | Native-speaker empowerment nonsense | Jun 28, 2014 |
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| If we´re talking in a formal setting I would say most definitely...NOT | Jun 30, 2014 |
Despite the great education and higher population of people with a minimum of a B.A. working in highly professional positions, people in Puerto Rico STILL speak as if they are uneducated.
It´s actually really sad to go into government offices and listen to people speak as if they don´t know any better.
How about grammar? Is there a poll in here about that?
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 17:39
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| In both languages I speak this is a serious issue | Jul 6, 2014 |
Brazilian Portuguese, my native language, is very rarely well spoken. It's a difficult language, with countless tenses and persons for each verb, the habit of reading in Brazil is reduced to about 10% of the population, and the same percentage goes to good schools and completes high-school. So, knowing this language well is a priviledge for very few people.
USA English, my second language, is well-spoken by a bit more people. However, in the US grammar is not emphasized. Although re... See more Brazilian Portuguese, my native language, is very rarely well spoken. It's a difficult language, with countless tenses and persons for each verb, the habit of reading in Brazil is reduced to about 10% of the population, and the same percentage goes to good schools and completes high-school. So, knowing this language well is a priviledge for very few people.
USA English, my second language, is well-spoken by a bit more people. However, in the US grammar is not emphasized. Although reading is a habit and spelling is given reasonable emphasis in schools, grammar is reduced to the basics in 7th and 8th grades, and then forgotten. Plus, people usually prefer terms that do not have a Latin root and that do not sound British, which reduces the language to the portion that is not quite the most "linguistic" one. And, let's face it: The Americans mostly don't care a lot for language skills unless they need it for a living. ▲ Collapse
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