| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | ATA letter: We regret to inform you that .... Thread poster: jsnit
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| More fora in Proz.com | Sep 6, 2010 |
jsnit wrote:
Good point Tomas!!!
but what about forums, blogs, where successful and unsuccessful candidates comment lessons learned and give some feedback to some other potential candidates?
I think that if you look for "ATA certification" or "ATA exam" in these same fora in Proz.com, you will find plenty of suggestions about how to prepare for the exam. This has been talked about a number of times already.
Some examples are this one, this one, or this (where also the IOL is discussed a bit).
However, I don't think it is allowed to discuss the contents of the exam itself (and I mean the text of the papers), since the text is reused during the year.
| | | | Elizabeth Adams 
United States
Local time: 08:12
Member (2002)
Russian to English
| practice tests | Sep 7, 2010 |
You have to take the practice test to see what kind of grading to expect. The ATA exam is a test like any other - it tests how well you do on the TEST, not how well you perform as a commercial translator.
| | | | Desdemone (X)
Local time: 12:12
French to English
| Much like the Proz Red P | Sep 7, 2010 |
Elizabeth Adams wrote:
You have to take the practice test to see what kind of grading to expect. The ATA exam is a test like any other - it tests how well you do on the TEST, not how well you perform as a commercial translator.
... which says absolutely nothing about one's skill as a translator.
| | | | | Don't agree at all | Sep 7, 2010 |
Paula Rennie wrote:
Elizabeth Adams wrote:
You have to take the practice test to see what kind of grading to expect. The ATA exam is a test like any other - it tests how well you do on the TEST, not how well you perform as a commercial translator.
Much like the Proz Red P
... which says absolutely nothing about one's skill as a translator.
I think you are cannot compare the regulated environment, time, and difficulty of ATA's exams (not to mention the two different qualified and experienced graders involved as a minimum) with Proz.com, in which you can take all the time and resources of the whole world in preparation of your sample text, which by the way you get to choose.
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| ATA letter: We regret to inform you that .... | Sep 7, 2010 |
Is there a ProZ certification?
| | | | Desdemone (X)
Local time: 12:12
French to English
| You've misunderstood Tomás... | Sep 7, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Paula Rennie wrote:
Elizabeth Adams wrote:
You have to take the practice test to see what kind of grading to expect. The ATA exam is a test like any other - it tests how well you do on the TEST, not how well you perform as a commercial translator.
Much like the Proz Red P
... which says absolutely nothing about one's skill as a translator.
I think you are cannot compare the regulated environment, time, and difficulty of ATA's exams (not to mention the two different qualified and experienced graders involved as a minimum) with Proz.com, in which you can take all the time and resources of the whole world in preparation of your sample text, which by the way you get to choose.
I'm all for ATA / CTTIC, etc. exams. I'm not for the big red P.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| | What we see is not what we get | Sep 9, 2010 |
A similar situation happened last year. A number of high school mathematical teachers took examinations to verify ability on the teaching subjects. The outcomes were worse than having been ever expected. The teachers' average scores were 30% or failed in the exam. It was found later that those teachers were good at the subjects being in charge, but lacked basic knowledge and experience of overall teaching skill [parts of the knowledge have already been forgotten after graduating from teacher tra... See more A similar situation happened last year. A number of high school mathematical teachers took examinations to verify ability on the teaching subjects. The outcomes were worse than having been ever expected. The teachers' average scores were 30% or failed in the exam. It was found later that those teachers were good at the subjects being in charge, but lacked basic knowledge and experience of overall teaching skill [parts of the knowledge have already been forgotten after graduating from teacher training colleges.] This event was badly disappointing the students' parent but facts were facts. We, the translators, also face with a similar situation to take the ATA exams.
Soonthon Lupkitaro ▲ Collapse
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| ATA leaves you in the dark. | Jul 7, 2011 |
When it comes to ATA. I find the manner in which they are conducting there examinations objectionable. They have candidates taking these exams year after year and failing. People who have decades of experience in the field. That is not in my opinion an indication of how elevated their expectations are but rather of how misinformed their examinees are. Clueless I would say. An examiner that has stringent rules and is grading you in an area so vast as language based on two short passages must giv... See more When it comes to ATA. I find the manner in which they are conducting there examinations objectionable. They have candidates taking these exams year after year and failing. People who have decades of experience in the field. That is not in my opinion an indication of how elevated their expectations are but rather of how misinformed their examinees are. Clueless I would say. An examiner that has stringent rules and is grading you in an area so vast as language based on two short passages must give you plenty of examples by way of detailed study materials that will allow you to know what and how you are expected to translate. For example a compilation of passages similar to ones that can be expected in the exam with marked versions of all the relevant grading points. If not able to do so , less just say ATA lacks the means to produce such materials then their grading must obey more generalized rules, be much less specifically addressed to cater to a certain type of client , or as NAATI they need to have different categories Ex: Advanced , Professional, Paraprofessional. As it is right now they are taking your money and you are offered a chance at a shot in the dark. Come in and spin the wheel! As soon as I got my failing grade I knew exactly what had happened. It wasn't that I did not translate the passages well sure i did; rather that I didn't do it in the way that ATA considers it correct and that is fine. Except I realized I would never get it right because I have no clue what that may be. That is why Tomas says he is very grateful he received the help of a very seasoned professional without which he doubts he would have passed despite his 13 years of experience. That is the best testimony of what I'm noticing. Of course! Eureka! so you are saying that it helps if someone clues you in what you need to be studying? What a novel idea! Not really.
[Edited at 2011-07-07 06:06 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-07-07 17:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sorry, wrong... :-) | Jul 12, 2011 |
inesventu wrote:
That is why Tomas says he is very grateful he received the help of a very seasoned professional without which he doubts he would have passed despite his 13 years of experience. That is the best testimony of what I'm noticing. Of course! Eureka! so you are saying that it helps if someone clues you in what you need to be studying? What a novel idea! Not really.
Actually you are wrong about this: the person who helped me prepare for the exam is not a member of ATA and has never been ATA-certified, but instead a very seasoned professional from Mexico who has translated many books and who I respect profoundly for her work and her character. Her insightful hints helped me understand my weaknesses and work on them. She does not know about what the ATA graders consider to be a good translation, but she knows for sure what a good translation is and what not.
inesventu wrote:
As soon as I got my failing grade I knew exactly what had happened. It wasn't that I did not translate the passages well sure i did; rather that I didn't do it in the way that ATA considers it correct and that is fine.
I really think you should read about how the grading is performed. It is not the ATA or ATA personnel who grade the exams: it is two separate certified, experienced translators in your language pair who grade the exams. If both of them think the exam is a fail, then it is a fail. If one of them thinks the exam is not a fail, then a third grader reviews the exam independently and his/her vote decides the end result.
However, in a way you are right: the translations were not considered as correct by the people who graded your exam. In a way, it is always good to learn and understand what kind of language is more likely in translators of your language pair who live in the US. In the case of English into Spanish, and coming from Spain, that was one of the ingredients of my tests. On top of that, I encourage you to hire a very seasoned professional in your language pair who can put you to a test and pinpoint your areas of improvement by means of a battery of translations. Let's face it: we all have things we need to polish!
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
You cannot get a copy of the source text either, since the same text is used during a whole year and it cannot be revealed until all exams of the year have been graded.
I find it hard to believe that a serious organization would do that. By now, even high-school teachers know better.
People have cameraphones, and some people have good memory. By February, the full text or at least a very detailed text summary and the all key terms whould be (are?) all over the internet.
A more reasonable scenario is that a pool of a couple of dozen texts is used throughout the year.
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You totally misquoted me even though you pasted the actual quote. I never said that your well seasoned professional friend was or had been ever been affiliated with ATA.
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| you need mayor help to pass | Jul 12, 2011 |
I thought that all I needed to pass the ATA exam was a command of the language. Since I have twelve years of formal education both in Spanish and in English, Spanish being my native language, I feared nothing. I was incredibly wrong as the 80% of examinees that failed before me. A command of the language is not enough and just what is I don't know. Maybe ATA expects and I'm only guessing, a professional translators' savvy. Who knows? I not okay with that, I felt they took my money and left me to... See more I thought that all I needed to pass the ATA exam was a command of the language. Since I have twelve years of formal education both in Spanish and in English, Spanish being my native language, I feared nothing. I was incredibly wrong as the 80% of examinees that failed before me. A command of the language is not enough and just what is I don't know. Maybe ATA expects and I'm only guessing, a professional translators' savvy. Who knows? I not okay with that, I felt they took my money and left me to my own devices. It seems that to pass you need a pro to teach you as Tomas had; or to take some special classes but I'm not clear as to what those may be and I personally don't think it wise for me to just start picking classes at a college willy-nilly hoping they fit the requirements of ATA's certification.That's what I mean by "ATA leaves you in the dark".
That's why now I'm picking the college route NYU and University of Chicago, Graham they both have online year long certification programs.
[Edited at 2011-07-12 23:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-07-12 23:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My apologies then! | Jul 13, 2011 |
inesventu wrote:
You totally misquoted me even though you pasted the actual quote. I never said that your well seasoned professional friend was or had been ever been affiliated with ATA.
OK! I understood that you meant to say someone from ATA had to give you the clues to succeed. If I got you wrong about it, I apologise!
inesventu wrote:
I thought that all I needed to pass the ATA exam was a command of the language.
I'm affraid this is not true. In fact, the requirements to take the exam are a degree in translation and interpretation, or a degree in another matter plus two years of translation experience, or five years of proven experience (with letters of satisfaction from customers covering that time or more).
The ATA certification is meant for translators, not for bilingual people. Maybe that is the reason why you find it hard to believe that you failed. Translation requires specific knowledge and practice, and I really doubt I would have passed the exam 15 years ago without my experience as a translator, even if at that time I could have been considered bilingual.
In my opinion, your best bet is to do the NYU programme, and then try the ATA certification again. It is very possible that, after proper translation training and practice, you will better grasp whether passing the ATA-certification was a reasonable expectation without that knowledge. It always happens in translation: as you learn more about some area, you feel that you were plain cheeky and daring for translating in that area previously.
Good luck!
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I never said I was simply bilingual. I said I have 12 years of formal education both in Spanish and English. Lets see to be clear by formal education I mean studying the languages in a school while being taught by teachers.
Forgive me but one more thing. You correct me when I say that ATA doesn't make it clear that one must be a pro translator to pass the exam and to that effect you state that they require a translators degree just to be able... See more I never said I was simply bilingual. I said I have 12 years of formal education both in Spanish and English. Lets see to be clear by formal education I mean studying the languages in a school while being taught by teachers.
Forgive me but one more thing. You correct me when I say that ATA doesn't make it clear that one must be a pro translator to pass the exam and to that effect you state that they require a translators degree just to be able to sit in the exam so far so good, yet you follow it with three different "or's" that invalidate your whole point since in fact any person that has worked as an interpreter and has never done a translation is permited to take the exam. Sorry, you chose to quote me so I feel compelled to make the record straight. ▲ Collapse
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