Mar 18, 2008 22:06
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
le O fermé
French to English
Other
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
hello - this is from a screenplay about a scientist studying killer whales on a remote island. At this point he is onboard a scientific trawler, looking for killer whales. The complete sentence is about the ship's captain, who is described as "Héritage bretonnant, le Capitaine est fâché avec le O fermé." I can't for the life of me work this one out!!!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | work round it |
Bourth (X)
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| 4 +1 | the closed O |
Johannes Gleim
|
| 4 +1 | a closed O |
askell
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| 1 | facho? |
Melissa McMahon
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Change log
Mar 19, 2008 11:12: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "Ships, Sailing, Maritime" to "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings"
Proposed translations
+1
11 hrs
Selected
work round it
I see no point in trying to explain this to English readers, and even less in transferring it to some English-language pronunciation equivalent like "castle" vs "caaastle".
Say something along the lines "His strong Breton accent meant he simply couldn't get his tongue around certain words properly" - which will work equally well if one imagines him speaking French or English.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-03-19 09:46:20 GMT)
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Unless a precise example follows (or precedes) your text, in which case you may have to be more specific.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-03-19 09:50:21 GMT)
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Make that "kassel" vs "castle", for Southerners, and "castle" vs "carssel" for Northerners.
Say something along the lines "His strong Breton accent meant he simply couldn't get his tongue around certain words properly" - which will work equally well if one imagines him speaking French or English.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-03-19 09:46:20 GMT)
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Unless a precise example follows (or precedes) your text, in which case you may have to be more specific.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-03-19 09:50:21 GMT)
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Make that "kassel" vs "castle", for Southerners, and "castle" vs "carssel" for Northerners.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
13 hrs
facho?
Is it possible that this isn't about the accent but about suggesting he's 'faché, 'facho' style?
Like a crack I read about Rik Mayall a long time ago" the article was called: "Rik with a silent 'p'"
Here: "'faché' with an O fermé" gives you = facho ie fasciste
That's still a very language specific crack that you'd have to work round in English, but it makes more sense to me as an interpretation... he sounds a bit like a Capitaine Haddock!
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-03-19 11:35:27 GMT)
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Or indeed the captain on the ship in Jaws :)
Like a crack I read about Rik Mayall a long time ago" the article was called: "Rik with a silent 'p'"
Here: "'faché' with an O fermé" gives you = facho ie fasciste
That's still a very language specific crack that you'd have to work round in English, but it makes more sense to me as an interpretation... he sounds a bit like a Capitaine Haddock!
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-03-19 11:35:27 GMT)
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Or indeed the captain on the ship in Jaws :)
+1
16 hrs
Johannes Gleim
40 years Engineer, 20 years translations
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 6 more.
the closed O
As I had choosen the wrong language pair French - German, I have to adapt my proposal to the French - English pair:
La prononciation habituelle de "embauche" est
c-à-d. avec un o ouvert.
Cependant, mardi soir sur "France Info", un animateur a prononcé
c-à-d. avec un o fermé.
http://www.languefrancaise.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=37480
La lettre o correspond à trois prononciations distinctes :
- Le o ouvert, semblable au o ouvert français (comme dans flotte ou dormir).
- Le o fermé, semblable au o fermé français (comme dans abricot ou kilo).
- Le o tonique (sans accent graphique ni tonique), se prononce toujours comme le son du groupe ou en français.
http://jppujol.club.fr/ZALPHABET.htm
Obviously the captain is complaining about the wrong prononciation of "brétonne" with closed O (if the writer did not play with words and letters as Melissa assumes).
Most of the times the "o" in French is open. It is closed when located at the end of the word. Note that the difference between open and closed "o" is not as stressed as it is in English between the words "open" and "control".
Examples:
Open o: botte (boot), grotte (cave), développer (to develop), homme (man)
Closed o: vélo (bicycle), indigo (indigo)
Similar sounds: (to a closed o): "au", "eau", "ô". Examples: eau (water), auto (car), contrôle (control).
http://www.jump-gate.com/languages/french/french1.html
2.3.3 Open and closed o
The following graphemes indicate a closed o: eau, ô, o
Examples
tombeau (tomb)
cadeau (gift)
lambeau (scrap)
drôle (funny)
vélo (bicycle)
...
open O closed O
pomme (apple) paume (palm)
rauque (hoarse) roc (rock)
nôtre (our, substantival) notre (our, adjectival)
http://www.french-online.de/grammar/chapter2/2_3_3_open_and_...
"bretonne" is pronounced normally with open O. If the closed O is used instead of, the pronounciation is wrong and the captain is annoyed hearing this.
La prononciation habituelle de "embauche" est
c-à-d. avec un o ouvert.
Cependant, mardi soir sur "France Info", un animateur a prononcé
c-à-d. avec un o fermé.
http://www.languefrancaise.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=37480
La lettre o correspond à trois prononciations distinctes :
- Le o ouvert, semblable au o ouvert français (comme dans flotte ou dormir).
- Le o fermé, semblable au o fermé français (comme dans abricot ou kilo).
- Le o tonique (sans accent graphique ni tonique), se prononce toujours comme le son du groupe ou en français.
http://jppujol.club.fr/ZALPHABET.htm
Obviously the captain is complaining about the wrong prononciation of "brétonne" with closed O (if the writer did not play with words and letters as Melissa assumes).
Most of the times the "o" in French is open. It is closed when located at the end of the word. Note that the difference between open and closed "o" is not as stressed as it is in English between the words "open" and "control".
Examples:
Open o: botte (boot), grotte (cave), développer (to develop), homme (man)
Closed o: vélo (bicycle), indigo (indigo)
Similar sounds: (to a closed o): "au", "eau", "ô". Examples: eau (water), auto (car), contrôle (control).
http://www.jump-gate.com/languages/french/french1.html
2.3.3 Open and closed o
The following graphemes indicate a closed o: eau, ô, o
Examples
tombeau (tomb)
cadeau (gift)
lambeau (scrap)
drôle (funny)
vélo (bicycle)
...
open O closed O
pomme (apple) paume (palm)
rauque (hoarse) roc (rock)
nôtre (our, substantival) notre (our, adjectival)
http://www.french-online.de/grammar/chapter2/2_3_3_open_and_...
"bretonne" is pronounced normally with open O. If the closed O is used instead of, the pronounciation is wrong and the captain is annoyed hearing this.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
20 hrs
|
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Merci
|
+1
10 hrs
a closed O
Pronunciation: two different sounds:. an open "o" more or less as the English "more" and "for"; a closed one like the English "go" and "low" ...
or
relate to following infos
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Note added at 19 heures (2008-03-19 17:16:54 GMT)
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other ref: Odette du Puigaudeau
or
relate to following infos
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Note added at 19 heures (2008-03-19 17:16:54 GMT)
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other ref: Odette du Puigaudeau
Note from asker:
| thanks this was the best explanation - though I haven't entered it into the gloasary for obvious reasons |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Bourth (X)
: Same phenomenon down South with "jon" and "jaune", "Och" and "Auch", cong..
1 hr
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Yep! thks Bourth
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Discussion