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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

copropriété

English translation:

Association of Co-owners

Added to glossary by AllegroTrans
Jan 14, 2013 12:55
11 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

copropriété

French to English Bus/Financial Real Estate
Joint ownership of course. But what is the term to be used when speaking of the entity (body, cabinet) managing property in joint ownership? Example: la copropriété doit prévenir les propriétaires individuels...
Proposed translations (English)
4 +9 Association of Co-owners
3 +1 Residents' Association
3 co-ownership management agent
5 -3 syndic
3 -1 body corporate
Change log

Jan 15, 2013 19:27: AllegroTrans Created KOG entry

Discussion

AllegroTrans Jan 15, 2013:
@ B D This raises again (one of my soapbox themes) the question as to whether one should EVER try to "convert" legal terms into the "equivalent" in the target country, or to aim for a syntactical term that reflects the "reality" in the source jurisdiction. Debate?
B D Finch Jan 15, 2013:
England and Wales Although strictly speaking, the situation is equivalent to a commonholders association in England and Wales (see: www.propertylawuk.net › Research and guidance), the commonhold form of tenure has failed to take off and in most cases where a freehold is jointly owned by the owners of individual flats, they are leasholders who form a company that owns the freehold. The leaseholders share of the freehold is by virtue of their shareholding in that company. So, I think that AllegroTrans's "Association of Co-owners" makes more sense than "Commonholders' Association" and also has the virtue of not being associated with a specific tenure regime in the UK.
rkillings Jan 14, 2013:
re: co-owners acting as a group But that's not all. In France, a copropriété has legal personality; that is, the co-owners as a group automatically constitute a legal person -- called a 'syndicat' in French. Note: NOT 'syndic'; that acts on behalf of the syndicat.
You could do worse than using the word "syndicate" in English, glossing it at first instance as the co-owners collectively.
Peter LEGUIE (asker) Jan 14, 2013:
Thank you all for your help. I am sorry that things were not clear enough to begin with. In fact, I believe that the answer is closer to the co-owners acting as a group.
Daryo Jan 14, 2013:
yes and no you put "copropriété" as the term to translate;

then you expand to say that in fact what you need is the EN name given to a property manager dealing with "immeuble en copropriété" (FR un syndic de copropriété )

then you give a sentence where "la copropriété" is more likely be an abbreviation for "the Co-owners association" but could also refer to the property manager acting on their behalf.

Is this an extract from the minutes of a Co-owners association meeting? Is the syndic informing co-owners of a new system he put in place (then "la copropriété" = the managing agent), or are the co-owners instructing the syndic what to do (then "la copropriété" = the co-owners)?

"La copropriété" would normally refer to the co-owners viewed as a group - "the Co-owners association", but what you asked for is the name given to the managing agent. You have the whole text, you'll have to make your mind which one it is you need in your ST.
Peter LEGUIE (asker) Jan 14, 2013:
Here is some context: "la copropriété délègue à XXX la gestion de la facturation des services de recharge". Does that help?

Proposed translations

+9
22 mins
Selected

Association of Co-owners

Problem with "Residents' Association" is that it implies that anybody (incl. tenants) would be members, whereas this clearly only involves the owners of the individual units.

[PDF]
LAKE MICHIGAN VIEW AT DIAMOND POINT ARTICLE 1. ASSOCIATION OF ...
Adobe PDF
1 EXHIBIT C CONDOMINIUM BY-LAWS LAKE MICHIGAN VIEW AT DIAMOND POINT ARTICLE 1. ASSOCIATION OF CO-OWNERS 1.1 Establishment of Association. Lake Michigan View at ...
www.diamondpt.us/condo-bylaws.pdf
Beachside Landing II Association of Co-Owners, Inc. Company ...
Beachside Landing II Association of Co-Owners, Inc. has a location in South Padre Island, TX. Active officers include Thomas P. Wingate, Hal Deberry and Russell Nash.
www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/South-Padre-Island/... - Cached
Aqua Condominiums Association of Co-Owners, Inc. Company ...
Aqua Condominiums Association of Co-Owners, Inc. has a location in Palatine, IL. Active officers include Kevin Nitz, Robert Heisler, Jack Harootunian and Penny Perry.
www.corporationwiki.com/Illinois/Palatine/aqua... - Cached
Michigan Legislature - Section 559.208
(9) The mortgagee of a first mortgage of record of a condominium unit shall give notice to the association of co-owners of the commencement of foreclosure of the first ...
legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-559-208 - Cached
[PDF]
EXHIBIT A CONDOMINIUM BY-LAWS MEADOW LAKE CONDOMINIUM ARTICLE ...
Adobe PDF
EXHIBIT A CONDOMINIUM BY-LAWS MEADOW LAKE CONDOMINIUM ARTICLE I ASSOCIATION OF CO-OWNERS Section 1. Meadow Lake Condominium, a residential Condominium Project located ...
mymeadowlake.com/ByLaws.pdf
Peer comment(s):
agree CHAKIB ROULA (X) : Definitely agree
1 min
thanks!
agree GILLES MEUNIER
20 mins
thanks!
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
24 mins
thanks!
agree writeaway : been asked before-should be in the glossary at least once if not more
52 mins
thanks!
agree mimi 254
1 hr
thanks!
agree Michael GREEN : writeaway is correct - but I don't think the previous entry is relevant here (http://www.proz.com/kudoz/4454096)
1 hr
thanks!
agree Jackie Doble : Just a note, this is right for the US but not for the UK. I think in the UK (though I can only find evidence in Indian examples, the term is Flat Owners Association - we don't use the co-owners, as it would mean that the appartment is jointly owned.
2 hrs
Thanks but it's not "for" the UK, it's from France and therefore my suggestion reflects the French "reality"
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Copropriétaire : in the sense of each property being owned by privately and the common parts (stairway, roof, façade, courtyard/garden etc) being owned jointly.
2 hrs
thanks!
neutral Daryo : "when speaking of the entity (body, cabinet) managing property in joint ownership": the term relates to the managing agent, not the co-owners of whose behalf he's acting // as in Syndic de copropriété - Cabinet PG Lance et Cie
5 hrs
not necessarily, some co-owners carry out the management themselves, some use an external managing agent
agree B D Finch : Regarding Jack's objection, I disagree with him but shall post the reasons in the Discussion section.
22 hrs
thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank all of you in any case."
+1
15 mins

Residents' Association

This could be a good answer. This is the term used with the block of flats where I used to live, but there may be other terms, particularly perhaps related to the size of the block.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael GREEN : The problem (IMO) here is that a "resident" might be a tenant, and not an owner / But surely that supports my point?
1 hr
Yes but even when I had tenant it was still the Residents' Association!!!!
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I agree with Michael's comment. The point is that the French term is specific and an English rendering has to retain that specificity.
2 hrs
agree Adrian MM. (X) : Even if legalistically a fuzzy match, this is the standard translation of City of London Scrivener-Linguist Notaries for the FR/ES/PO/IT/RO varieties
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
-3
44 mins

syndic

Syndic is the term commonly used in French
Peer comment(s):
disagree philgoddard : This is a French to English question!
53 mins
neutral Michael GREEN : But we're looking for the term in English ...
54 mins
disagree Jackie Doble : syndic means the agent not the co-owners themselves
2 hrs
neutral Daryo : "syndic de copropriété" correct in FR not in EN
5 hrs
disagree rkillings : Nope. The collectivity is the syndicat.
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

co-ownership management agent

If it is farmed out.
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : the ST says it is: "when speaking of the entity (body, cabinet) managing property in joint ownership...
2 hrs
disagree rkillings : Nope. This is only the agent of the legal person in question.
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
14 hrs

body corporate

if you mean the entity managing the property on behalf of the owners, this is the term used here in Australia (and in New Zealand). I've checked various websites and it would appear to be understandable to legal beagles in other countries but if your text is for a UK English speaker, not necessarily of a legal persuasion, I'd go with residents' association.
Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : Too specific to Oz and NZ to express the French "reality" to an international EN-spkg audience
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
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