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upon the serial clock
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Mar 7, 2014 17:35
10 yrs ago
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English term

bring someone up short

English to French Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
About religious partnerships, people wanting to make a change in their lives (by welcoming God into it).
During my research I found something along the lines of "interrompt soudainement", but that can't be right with this sentence.

Motivation: Without motivation, individuals remain, at best, indifferent to
change—to God’s message. But with the right motivation, they can move to an
active seeking mode. A sense of personal need moves people to consider actually
making a change. Building on the information and experience they have to date,
conviction of the Spirit, physical need, family problems, employment crisis, or
other personal needs finally ***bring them up short***.
Proposed translations (French)
2 +4 couper quelqu'un dans son élan
3 +3 les obligent à voir la réalité en face
5 les prend par surprise
4 les y pousse rapidement
4 les interpellent
4 finissent par les forcer à mettre fin à leur inertie
3 sert de moteur/catalyseur pour apporter un changement
3 les forcent à faire le point
4 -1 finissent par créer en eux un manque
3 les conduisent à se poser

Discussion

ormiston Mar 9, 2014:
une remise en question Could cover the idea of stopping in one's tracks to reconsider.
Tony M Mar 8, 2014:
@ Francis You are missing out one important little word that makes all the difference!
The verb we are dealing with here is 'to bring up short' (AFAIK, there is no such specific verb as 'to bring short').
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
@Tony Possibly yes. Mais alors "une brutale remise en question", otherwise, "brutale" would seem to qualify "question". And in the plural form : "sont amenés à de brutales remises en question". Still I find assimilating this "bring short" to "stop short" a confusing interpretation: "bring short" short appears somewhat remote from "stop short" ( in their tracks // from doing or thinking this or that). Is not "bring short" closer to "falling short" than it is to "stop short" ? As with any colloquialism, it's open to debate as the meaning of the idiom is on shifty grounds.
Tony M Mar 8, 2014:
@ Francis "Far away from the original image", fine; BUT it is important to retain the key element, which it the abrupt, 'shock' nature of this realisation; their life has been following a certain path, and they are suddenly made to stop and reconsider what they are doing. The idea of 'se remettre en question' is probably closest, so perhaps something like « une brutale remise en question » ... ? [edited following suggestion from F.M.]
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
@Tony Granted. I still think a cultural leap is called for here, away and even far away from the original image, however adequate it may be in English. That's why the solution "fait naître un manque" is not so absurd. Following dictionaries' indications is probably the last route to recommend here.
Tony M Mar 8, 2014:
@ Francis 'Fraid I can't agree there, Francis! I wouldn't for a moment suggest that a literal solution would work — not least, because the source idiom is so particular.
However, just because FR doesn't have a satisfactory equivalent expression, you can't simply dismiss it as being wrongly-used imagery in the source language; such an assertion would be presumptuous and frankly ridiculous!

In fact, the source expression is extremely well chosen — it is up to you native speakers of French now to find an expression that conveys all the nuance of meaning of the original as neatly as possible; and if a stock expression really doesn't exist, then now's the time to invent one!

Writeaway is right in saying that 'couper quelqu'un dans son élan' is the standard dictionary translation for this expression — it's just that, as you say, in this more figurative context, the rather physical notion of 'élan' seems a little awkward.
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
lire "être saisi AU vol" dans les messages précédents.
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
Je viens d'écrire "To stop short in their tracks" (qui serait "être saisi a vol" en français)", c'est vrai, même si la traduction la plus proche serait "être arrêté net", mais une telle expression en français dans ce texte ne fonctionne pas non plus. L'inadéquation de l'image originale force à en inventer une autre, très différente, pour la traduction française
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
@Tony Il n'y a pas de traduction littérale, ni même "non littérale" qui fonctionne ici, compte tenu du contexte. La seule traduction possible sera dictée par le seul contexte. "To stop short in their tracks" (qui serait "être saisi a vol" en français) does not work here either for a French translation. And it should only be fair to say that if no translation fit it's because the choice of the original image is itself inadequate to the context and general meaning.
Tony M Mar 8, 2014:
@ Francis But that's really not the meaning of 'short' here? Jonathan and Victoria have explained it correctly.
'short' in this context means 'abruptly', let's say: "The sound of a gunshot stopped him short in his tracks."

It really has nothing to do with 'disjoncter', which as far as I am aware is similar to 'peter les plombs'.
Francis Marche Mar 8, 2014:
Short circuit ? En fait il y a un terme emprunté à l'électricité qui pourrait convenir si s'il n'était pas si fortement connoté "langue populaire" : disjoncter. "finally bring them short" : "finit par les faire disjoncter". Il y a trop de facteurs disparates et contradictoires désignés comme causes du "bring them short" dans le texte pour écarter "disjoncter".
Victoria Britten Mar 7, 2014:
Agree with Jonathan The image is of someone moving along and coming to an abrupt halt when, as Jonathan says, their direction is called into question.
Jonathan MacKerron Mar 7, 2014:
makes them stop what they are doing i.e. they finally realize that they are on the wrong path

Proposed translations

+4
3 hrs
Selected

couper quelqu'un dans son élan

-
Peer comment(s):
agree GILLES MEUNIER
8 hrs
merci Gilou
agree writeaway : c'est ce je vois dans mon dictionnaire (et c'est un bon dico.....)
15 hrs
merci writeaway
neutral Francis Marche : Mais quel "élan" ici ? D'autant qu'en français "l'élan" est connoté positif (avec p. ex. "l'élan spirituel", justement)
17 hrs
agree Tony M : Though with the same reservation as F.M.
19 hrs
merci Tony
agree Jocelyne Cuenin : Si on ne veut pas d'élan, on pourrait peut-être dire arrêtés (net) sur leur lancée.
1 day 19 hrs
merci Petitavoine
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
6 mins

les y pousse rapidement

proposé
Something went wrong...
8 mins

sert de moteur/catalyseur pour apporter un changement

ce n'est pas vraiment une traduction de bring them up short, mais c'est comme ça que je comprends la phrase...
Something went wrong...
1 hr

les interpellent

je dirais en français
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

les forcent à faire le point

Une suggestion. Je suis d'accord avec Jonathan et Victoria. La phrase que je propose n'est pas une traduction exacte ( j'aurais peut-être choisi "les font 'tilter') ; mais l'idée, à mon avis, c'est la prise de conscience soudaine ...
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-1
4 hrs

finissent par créer en eux un manque

C'est l'idée classique que la conversion religieuse vient "combler un manque" que la vie matérielle ne comblait pas.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : But that has nothing to do with the source text in the question. 'short' here doesn't mean 'manque'. / Neither! 'to bring up short' means 'to stop someone abruptly (and make them think)'
34 mins
You mean I fell short ? Comment comprenez-vous ce "short" ici Tony, comme celui de "to cut a long story short" ou bien "short circuit" ?
Something went wrong...
+3
12 hrs

les obligent à voir la réalité en face

ou les obligent à se mettre en cause
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
36 mins
Thanks Tony :)
agree katsy : c'est un peu ce que j'ai essayé de dire (!) donc, comment ne pas être d'accord :-)
9 hrs
Thanks Katsy
agree Beila Goldberg : Avec toutes les explications, l'expression qui serait la plus utilisée en français.
12 hrs
Thanks Beila
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21 hrs

les conduisent à se poser

Pour répondre à l'objection sur "couper dans son élan", c'est en fait le sentiment de vouloir sortir d'une vie qui les a emportés, qui fait que ces gens ont envie de "se poser", suite aux événements décrits
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22 hrs
English term (edited): finally bring them up short

finissent par les forcer à mettre fin à leur inertie

Building on the information and experience they have to date, conviction of the Spirit, physical need, family problems, employment crisis, or other personal needs finally bring them up short
=
... finissent par les forcer à mettre fin à leur inertie
Something went wrong...
2 days 15 hrs

les prend par surprise

OED "bring up short": check abruptly, take by surprise
"cut short": put a sudden end to; stop abruptly in the course of action
Something went wrong...
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