Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
blundered on hedgehogs
English answer:
came upon some hedgehogs
Added to glossary by
David Knowles
Mar 14, 2005 10:15
19 yrs ago
English term
DELVING into DETAIL
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian, Russian to English, and 2 more.
blundered on hedgehogs
English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
children's literature
Bindweed met with a Bear in raspberry bushes that growled at him, and when Golden Glow stooped down to pick a handful of blueberries, he blundered on some prickly hedgehogs.
Dear native English speakers!
Please advise if it is possible to put the phrase this way. Is it comprehensible enough?
The talk is about two friends - Bindweed and Golden Glow - that happened to find themselves in a forest.
This is my translation from Russian.
Dear native English speakers!
Please advise if it is possible to put the phrase this way. Is it comprehensible enough?
The talk is about two friends - Bindweed and Golden Glow - that happened to find themselves in a forest.
This is my translation from Russian.
Responses
Responses
+4
43 mins
David Knowles
Native in English
&
English
Specializes in field
Specialist in Civil Law & Contracts
Native in: English 
Works in: Russian to English, English, Ukrainian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
72
Selected
came upon some hedgehogs
but I'm worried about a few other things!
1. As already commented on, is it "a bear" or "Bear"?
2. Are there both raspberries and blueberries there? If so, it's confusing. If not, I'd say "a handful of the red berries".
3. "Stumbled on" isn't right, because he's not walking - he's stooping.
4. "Blundered on" is OK, but again it implies more movement, and also probably clumsy movement.
5. Chanced upon, happened upon, encountered, are all possible alternatives.
1. As already commented on, is it "a bear" or "Bear"?
2. Are there both raspberries and blueberries there? If so, it's confusing. If not, I'd say "a handful of the red berries".
3. "Stumbled on" isn't right, because he's not walking - he's stooping.
4. "Blundered on" is OK, but again it implies more movement, and also probably clumsy movement.
5. Chanced upon, happened upon, encountered, are all possible alternatives.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
rek21
: I like this turn of phrase. it's very typical of English story-telling, isn't it?
55 mins
|
| agree |
Nancy Arrowsmith
: good points. He almost put his hand on a hedgehog (they usually appear alone, unless it's a mother with babies)
1 hr
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| agree |
juvera
: "In the raspberry/blueberry bushes he blundered upon a bear who growled at him, and when G.G. stooped down to pick a handful of berries, he found some hedgehogs." By the way, why didn't he run away from the bear, like everybody else would?
1 hr
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| agree |
Deborah do Carmo
: simple, idiomatic and children will understand - they are the target audience after all
10 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for your help, David! Thanks everybody!"
+1
2 mins
stumbled on...
would be better. I would also put the "In the raspberry bushes" at the beginning of the sentence. Otherwise it looks as though it was the rasberry bushes that growled rather than the bear....
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Richard Benham
: 100% on the raspberry bushes. Stumbling on something suggests that the subject was walking along rather than merely bending down.
10 mins
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|
originally yes but stumbled can also have a figurative meaning
|
|
| agree |
sarahl (X)
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Christopher Crockett
: Unless Russian raspberry bushes growl, of course. I prefer "stumbled upon" to "bumble on".
3 hrs
|
| disagree |
Charlesp
: I dont think that I'd say "stumbled," as it seems to imply falling.
4 hrs
|
+1
11 mins
explanation
Generally it sounds OK, but there are a couple of things that are not clear to me:
a) is Bear another character or just a bear. If it is another character you don't need the indefinite article in front of his name, so it's either "Bindweed met Bear" or "Bindweed met a bear"
b) who growled at him? the bear he met or the raspberry bushes (I suppose in such stories rasperry bushes could growl!!??)
As it was probably the bear, I'd say "Bindweed met with a bear, in (the/some) raspberry bushes, that growled.."
a) is Bear another character or just a bear. If it is another character you don't need the indefinite article in front of his name, so it's either "Bindweed met Bear" or "Bindweed met a bear"
b) who growled at him? the bear he met or the raspberry bushes (I suppose in such stories rasperry bushes could growl!!??)
As it was probably the bear, I'd say "Bindweed met with a bear, in (the/some) raspberry bushes, that growled.."
+1
11 mins
he blundered upon some prickly hedgehogs
I think it is fine, though I would say "upon"
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Note added at 14 mins (2005-03-14 10:29:34 GMT)
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Yes, Apricitas is right,
either Bear is a name, so take out the \"a\" - or if it is a generic bear, then don\'t capitalize it. I\'d quess that it is the former, so take out the \"a\".
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Note added at 16 mins (2005-03-14 10:31:49 GMT)
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I have changed my mind:
\"Bindweed met a bear in the raspberry bushes that growled at him...\"
- but I still keep my suggestion of \"upon\" - the target of your question actually.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-03-14 10:29:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, Apricitas is right,
either Bear is a name, so take out the \"a\" - or if it is a generic bear, then don\'t capitalize it. I\'d quess that it is the former, so take out the \"a\".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2005-03-14 10:31:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have changed my mind:
\"Bindweed met a bear in the raspberry bushes that growled at him...\"
- but I still keep my suggestion of \"upon\" - the target of your question actually.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Christopher Crockett
: Yes, definitely "upon". But I prefer CMJ_Trans' "stumbled" rather than "bumbled".
3 hrs
|
|
stumbled (now that you mention it) seems to imply falling, so I dont like that one.
|
|
| neutral |
CMJ_Trans (X)
: stumbled upon is not the same as stumbled period
5 hrs
|
59 mins
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
Native in English
&
English
Specializes in field
Benchmark Translations
Native in: Portuguese , English
Works in: Portuguese, English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
48
blundered into some prickly hedgehogs
blunder
— vb. (mainly intr.)
[...]
5. (often foll. by about, into, etc.) to act clumsily; stumble: he blundered into a situation he knew nothing about.
I would prefer to use INTO because it means to come up against/meet something.
(upon sounds a bit like he stepped on them)
Prepositions can be a bit tricky sometimes...
HTH
— vb. (mainly intr.)
[...]
5. (often foll. by about, into, etc.) to act clumsily; stumble: he blundered into a situation he knew nothing about.
I would prefer to use INTO because it means to come up against/meet something.
(upon sounds a bit like he stepped on them)
Prepositions can be a bit tricky sometimes...
HTH
3 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
&
English
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
7
happened upon some prickly hedgehogs
I believe that Charles' objection to "stumble" because Bindweed is not walking is not valid here.
"Stumble" has the figurative sense of "to come unexpectedly or by chance <stumble onto the truth>"
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=stumble
while "bumble" is more often "to proceed unsteadily", or, more often to "BOTCH, ||blow, blunder, bobble, bollix, bungle, fumble, mucker, muff, ||screw (up)".
The difference in nuance here might be one between U.S. & U.K. English, however.
In any event, what is meant is "happened upon" or "chanced upon", in the sense of "to come by chance <he unexpectedly happened on a new method>".
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=happen
Whatever verb is used, I prefer "upon" to "on", just because it sounds better to my ear.
"Stumble" has the figurative sense of "to come unexpectedly or by chance <stumble onto the truth>"
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=stumble
while "bumble" is more often "to proceed unsteadily", or, more often to "BOTCH, ||blow, blunder, bobble, bollix, bungle, fumble, mucker, muff, ||screw (up)".
The difference in nuance here might be one between U.S. & U.K. English, however.
In any event, what is meant is "happened upon" or "chanced upon", in the sense of "to come by chance <he unexpectedly happened on a new method>".
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=happen
Whatever verb is used, I prefer "upon" to "on", just because it sounds better to my ear.
3 hrs
when GG stooped down to pick blueberries, his hand inadvertently encountered some prickly hedgehogs
another way of putting it
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Note added at 3 hrs 46 mins (2005-03-14 14:02:05 GMT)
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The thing is, since blueberry bushes can be dense, you sometimes have to thrust your hand in and pick the fruit just by the feel of it without necessarily being able to see what you are doing. That\'s why his hand, not his eyes, encountered the hedgehogs.
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Note added at 3 hrs 46 mins (2005-03-14 14:02:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The thing is, since blueberry bushes can be dense, you sometimes have to thrust your hand in and pick the fruit just by the feel of it without necessarily being able to see what you are doing. That\'s why his hand, not his eyes, encountered the hedgehogs.
5 hrs
In the raspberry bushes, Bindweed came across
a Bear that growled at him; while Golden Glow, stooping to pick a handful of blueberries, blundered upon some prickly hedgehogs.
Try not to start an independent clause with a conjunction of it can be avoided, even when separated from the first clause by a comma. "and" in this case can easily and more elegantly be replaced by "while" As for "stooped"? It is impossible to "Stoop up" ergo "Stoop down" would be a redundancy.
Try not to start an independent clause with a conjunction of it can be avoided, even when separated from the first clause by a comma. "and" in this case can easily and more elegantly be replaced by "while" As for "stooped"? It is impossible to "Stoop up" ergo "Stoop down" would be a redundancy.
Discussion