Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
bourreau
English translation:
executioner
Added to glossary by
Stephanie Ezrol
Apr 5, 2011 17:01
13 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term
bourreau
French to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
a story set in France in the early 1700s
This term comes up a few times, and in this context I don't think it is an executioner or a hangman in any literal sense of the word. I know that people were executed in the 16th century for their writings in France, but I don't think this happened in the 1730s -- so that's why I don't think the proper translation would be the dictionary defintions. I could be wrong. Any help is appreciated.
It is describing a French government official involved in censorship/suppressing unwanted literature, but probably not the chief government censor.
Here's the full sentence:
Derriere l'atrroupement se trouve un bourreau qui jetter de numbreux exemplaire d'une meme livre dans un feu.
There is not a further description of the bourreau or his functions. This is a street scene witnessed by one of the story's protagonists who is worried/concerned/unhappy about this activitiy.
It is describing a French government official involved in censorship/suppressing unwanted literature, but probably not the chief government censor.
Here's the full sentence:
Derriere l'atrroupement se trouve un bourreau qui jetter de numbreux exemplaire d'une meme livre dans un feu.
There is not a further description of the bourreau or his functions. This is a street scene witnessed by one of the story's protagonists who is worried/concerned/unhappy about this activitiy.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
18 hrs
Selected
executioner
Figurative use.
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I used the term executioner. However it may be also in the literal sense, i.e. the same person or the same office in charge of both: burning books or executing people. The auto da fe does seem to have burned both books and people."
28 mins
"scourge" or "tormentor"
"bourreau" translated as "tormentor"
Source: Harrap's French-English dictionary 2000
"scourge"
found by looking for synonyms for "tormentor" on www.thesaurus.com
20 mins
justiciary
*zealot?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 minutes (2011-04-05 17:22:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
*castigator?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 minutes (2011-04-05 17:48:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
justiciary : administrator of justice
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 minutes (2011-04-05 17:49:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://classic.net.bible.org/lexicon.php?word=justiciary
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 minutes (2011-04-05 17:22:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
*castigator?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 minutes (2011-04-05 17:48:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
justiciary : administrator of justice
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 minutes (2011-04-05 17:49:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://classic.net.bible.org/lexicon.php?word=justiciary
Note from asker:
Do you have anything more on justiciary? |
2 hrs
henchman
one definition of this is
"an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate,..."
i.e. someone who is prepared to 'execute' the dirty work.
I wonder why there are so many mistakes in the rest of the French sentence ...
"an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate,..."
i.e. someone who is prepared to 'execute' the dirty work.
I wonder why there are so many mistakes in the rest of the French sentence ...
2 hrs
henchman
this might cover the idea (although why is the rest of the sentence so full of French mistakes ?!)
one definition of 'henchman' is "an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate"
Like an executioner, someone prepared to do the dirty work (i.e. presumably following orders, not necessarily on his initiative). And perhaps henchman conveys enough disapproval, shock, etc.
one definition of 'henchman' is "an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate"
Like an executioner, someone prepared to do the dirty work (i.e. presumably following orders, not necessarily on his initiative). And perhaps henchman conveys enough disapproval, shock, etc.
48 mins
barbarian
Bourreau :
Exécuteur des hautes-oeuvres, des arrêts rendus en matière criminelle, notamment la peine de mort.
Meurtrier, homme cruel, barbare.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-04-05 19:56:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In idiomatic or figurative usage, a "barbarian" may also be an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, warlike, insensitive person.
Exécuteur des hautes-oeuvres, des arrêts rendus en matière criminelle, notamment la peine de mort.
Meurtrier, homme cruel, barbare.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-04-05 19:56:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In idiomatic or figurative usage, a "barbarian" may also be an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, warlike, insensitive person.
2 hrs
Book burner
Seeing as book burning has been done by a whole range of different types of people/professions, for different reasons over the years there is probably not one simple term for it. I don't know if saying "executioner" or "henchman", the standard translations for this word would work in English. However, I think the coarsness and barbarism of the act is still conveyed by using this simplistic idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2011-04-05 22:14:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I just think that although the idea of "executioner" is removed from this term, it still has just as sinister a tone to it when used in English.
For example:
"[...] Mona ElTahawy does not welcome a book burner into the UNESCO: What does a security crackdown resembling Saudi-style morality policing have to do with the U.N. [...]"
http://www.monaeltahawy.com/blog/?p=160
I get the same adverse and spine tingling feeling when I see book burner, as when I see "book executioner".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2011-04-05 22:17:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the ideas is implicit in the connotations of the word. So when I say "simplistic" I mean that in English, do we really need to go all the way and talk about executioners, butchers or tormentors (http://www.wordreference.com/fren/bourreau) when we could a similar amount of dread from a more basic and descriptive term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2011-04-05 22:14:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I just think that although the idea of "executioner" is removed from this term, it still has just as sinister a tone to it when used in English.
For example:
"[...] Mona ElTahawy does not welcome a book burner into the UNESCO: What does a security crackdown resembling Saudi-style morality policing have to do with the U.N. [...]"
http://www.monaeltahawy.com/blog/?p=160
I get the same adverse and spine tingling feeling when I see book burner, as when I see "book executioner".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2011-04-05 22:17:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the ideas is implicit in the connotations of the word. So when I say "simplistic" I mean that in English, do we really need to go all the way and talk about executioners, butchers or tormentors (http://www.wordreference.com/fren/bourreau) when we could a similar amount of dread from a more basic and descriptive term.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
ormiston
: you yourself admit it is 'simplistic'
22 mins
|
I didn't mean in the sense of "over-simplified". I meant rather than using a specific or clever word which might not carry across languages, something basic and essential might still work// I was also not trying to demote any other suggestions.
|
|
neutral |
Alan Douglas (X)
: Stating the obvious?
15 hrs
|
It sometimes helps to state the obvious if being specific is not possible - it's just an option.
|
17 hrs
enforcer
This is the best dictionary definition that I have come across for bourreau:
http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/b...
Specifically:
1. Celui qui inflige les peines corporelles qu’ordonnent les arrêts rendus en matière criminelle. Livré au bourreau. Livre brulé par le bourreau.
Also:
www.linternaute.com
Bourreau
Sens 1 : personne chargée de mettre à mort les condamnés. Synonyme : exécuteur.
Anglais : executioner.
Sens 2 : personne cruelle (figuré). Synonyme : sadique.
Following the trail with Harrap’s Unabridged Pro:
exécuteur is a synonyme for bourreau. Apart from figurative options, it can be translated as both executioner and enforcer. It is the latter, enforcer, that makes the most sense here. It properly conveys the sense of menace and cruelty but also enforcement/execution in the sense of carrying out an act pursuant to a judgement or decree.
http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/b...
Specifically:
1. Celui qui inflige les peines corporelles qu’ordonnent les arrêts rendus en matière criminelle. Livré au bourreau. Livre brulé par le bourreau.
Also:
www.linternaute.com
Bourreau
Sens 1 : personne chargée de mettre à mort les condamnés. Synonyme : exécuteur.
Anglais : executioner.
Sens 2 : personne cruelle (figuré). Synonyme : sadique.
Following the trail with Harrap’s Unabridged Pro:
exécuteur is a synonyme for bourreau. Apart from figurative options, it can be translated as both executioner and enforcer. It is the latter, enforcer, that makes the most sense here. It properly conveys the sense of menace and cruelty but also enforcement/execution in the sense of carrying out an act pursuant to a judgement or decree.
10 days
overzealous petty official
I believe the sense of 'bourreau' in this case connotes a person acting in an official capacity, but someone undistinguised doing low-grade work. Burning several copies implies he takes his pitiful work very seriously. I don't read this as a freelancer, in any case.
Discussion
See also: http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/b... - "valet de bourreau", homme qui aide le burreau dans les éxecutions. He could be described as the henchman or assistant of the "bourreau".
justiciary (en) = justicier (fr)
1. The chief political and judicial officer under Norman and early Plantagenate kings.
2. ARCHAIC. One who administers justice as a judge.
Is this really the sense here?