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NAME B.D.
Weichenstellantriebe
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Jun 11 01:26
3 mos ago
52 viewers *
German term

toirezen

German to English Social Sciences General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
This comes from a letter written by a Jewish woman in Vienna in the fall of 1939:

Unlängst war Onkel Arnold nach vielen Monaten wieder einmal hier, er verbringt seine freie Zeit im Altersheim in der Seegasse, wo er ein paar alte Leute gefunden hat, mit denen er “toirezen” kann.

Can't find the word in any dictionary, not even in my "Wiener Dialekt Lexikon." Any ideas? Perhaps from French? or Yiddish? or just a very obscure German verb?
Proposed translations (English)
3 -5 brown magic
References
toirezen, taretzen

Discussion

ibz Jul 5:
@asker Another try: would you mind sharing the answer you found elsewhere? I’m simply interested to know what this word means. Thank you!
thefastshow Jun 11:
As much as study the Torah may make sense, it may be helpful to consider the Hebrew origins of "rezen" which then could be translated as "to delight in something" here.
https://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Rezen =>
https://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Rezin
I would not think that it has any links to the dutch verb "rezen"
https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/niederländisch-deutsch/rezen
Having said that, this is a guess based on logic rather than knowledge of the actual verb "toirezen" though.
Sakshi Garg Jun 11:
@John Yes, John is correct. Yes, it is a Yiddish word rather than a German one. Given the context of a Jewish woman writing in Vienna in 1939, it is likely that the word is derived from Yiddish, which was commonly spoken among Jewish communities in Europe at that time.

Toirezen: To study Torah or To engage in Torah study

https://www.torahmates.org/about.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah_study
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/torah-study-101/
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5123934/jewis...
https://aish.com/why-study-torah/
John O'Brien Jun 11:
Torje = Torah Torje is Yiddish for Torah. Might the old men be debatating the meaning of the Torah? This is just a guess.
Timoshka (asker) Jun 11:
@ philgoddard Since she enclosed this word in quotes, I assume it is a newly created verb...perhaps based on the name of some card game, etc. Or maybe, it refers to chatting, visiting, etc. I'm pretty much clueless here...
philgoddard Jun 11:
Thanks Could it be some form of recreation?
Timoshka (asker) Jun 11:
@ philgoddard Yes, it's handwritten, and very clearly at that! This is the full discussion of Uncle Arnold. The next sentence begins a whole new topic. And, finally, the quotes were added by the writer.
philgoddard Jun 11:
Questions... Is this handwritten?
Are you sure it says 'toirezen'?
Does the following text provide any clues?
Are the quotes yours, or the writer's?

Proposed translations

-5
17 hrs

brown magic

The only link I found on the internet:

Brown magic (toirezen) is also known as: the Path of the False Birth, the Enthronement on Porcelain, the Depleting Scroll, and the Flush of the Goddess. It is a magic of subtraction and cleansing.
http://www.mirrorsoferis.com/files/makhai-raw-part1-alala.pd...

Subtraction is a powerful tool that can help us to simplify our lives and improve our decision-making processes. By intentionally removing things from our lives, we create space for more important things and encourage creativity, focus, and self-control.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

After all, we're conditioned to believe that bigger is better, and accumulating more is the key to happiness and success. The Law of Subtraction is all about simplifying and streamlining your life to uncover the hidden benefits of having less.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

However, I wouldn't get involved in such esoteric things and squander my money and fritter away my precious time on them.

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Note added at 1 Tag 9 Stunden (2024-06-12 11:09:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Auf Deutsch: "... wo er ein paar alte Leute gefunden hat, mit denen er über Spiritismus reden kann.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Tag 9 Stunden (2024-06-12 11:11:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oder auch: ... mit denen er über "Geistheiler" und "Geistheilungen" reden kann.
Peer comment(s):
disagree philgoddard : Read the context! Your first reference relates to a 1960s parody religion. This is from 1939. Your second and third are wholly irrelevant.
11 hrs
1939 begann zwar der 2. Weltkrieg, aber der Brief scheint darauf keinen Bezug zu nehmen. Und parapsychologische Phänomene erregten schon im 19. Jahrhundert die Aufmerksamkeit gewisser Zirkel.
disagree Schtroumpf : Wenn man so wenig im Internet findet, und dann noch aus der falschen Epoche, warum nicht KEINE Antwort einstellen? Wer soll glauben, dass ein Jude 1939 froh über "braune Magie" sein kann???
14 hrs
Die Frage enthält keinen Hinweis auf das 3. Reich oder den Krieg. Spiritismus war auch damals verbreitet.
disagree ibz : Äusserst abenteuerliche Argumentation ...
16 hrs
We cannot decide whether it is about occultism. But the questioner should know that people also believe in it.
disagree Steffen Walter : Sehr unwahrscheinlich, irrelevante Quellen. Siehe Johannas fundierten Beitrag im Referenzbereich.
18 hrs
We cannot decide whether it is about occultism. But the questioner should know that people also believe in it.
disagree AllegroTrans : Makes no sense in the context
3 days 19 hrs
The text makes no sense either. But some people believe in that.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

17 hrs
Reference:

toirezen, taretzen

Yiddish "toiretz" (תּירוץ) means "answer" or "solution” (derived from Hebrew "תירוץ" =terutz, same meaning). In everyday usage, it refers to a response or an explanation provided in reply to a question or problem. In the context of religious or scholarly discussion, it can also specifically refer to an answer or resolution to a difficulty or a question posed about a text, such as in Talmudic study.

https://www.lingq.com/en/learn-hebrew-online/translate/he/תי...

See also „Kasche und Taretz“= Frage- und Antwortspiel
https://tinyurl.com/bdeuebtn




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2024-06-11 22:53:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Austrian/Viennese [oi] often corresponds to the high German [a:], as in Toi=Tal, Woid=Wald etc. For that reason; toirezen< taretzen
More alternantive spellings here:
https://jel.jewish-languages.org/words/3595
Note from asker:
Vielen Dank für diese Erklärung, Johanna!
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Björn Vrooman : Thanks! So John was right. Tried to find another spelling people might have used but didn't get very far. Even now, I can't find anything when using your example. Someone should post an answer before the solution disappears into the inter-nether.
35 mins
agree writeaway
3 hrs
agree Kim Metzger
5 hrs
agree philgoddard : Well done! You could just say 'study the Talmud'.
11 hrs
agree Schtroumpf : Convincing explanation for a really difficult word!
13 hrs
neutral Johannes Gleim : Ob dies so gemeint ist, müsste im Gesamtzusammenhang des Briefes geprüft werden, den aber nur die Fragerin kennt.
16 hrs
das stimmt! Mein erster Gedanke war z.B. eine Dialektvariante von "tarocken", das wird in Wien gern gespielt
agree Steffen Walter
18 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
3 days 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
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