Mar 7, 2007 05:11
17 yrs ago
Russian term
Thorough, sensitive, and idiomatic
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, Spanish to English, English, and 2 more.
Девочке запрет из 40 домов
Russian to English
Social Sciences
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Kazakhstan
Yeah, yeah, I can do the literal translation too, but I need some cultural background to get to some kind of similar meaning in English
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +3 | для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls |
Zamira B.
|
| 3 +2 | possible definition (see below) |
Marina Khonina
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| 3 | <explanation> |
ruslingua
|
Proposed translations
+3
1 hr
Selected
для девочек 40 запретов - there are 40 taboos for the girls
-
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:01:19 GMT)
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PDF] ФЕРГАНСКАЯ ДОЛИНА: ВЫЗОВЫ ВРЕМЕНИFayl formati (turi): PDF/Adobe Acrobat - GTBT(Giper Text Belgilash Tili)da ko'rsat
в Кыргызстане – «кызга кырк жерден тыйуу», что означает «для девочек – сорок. запретов». Вопрос о механизмах защиты прав женщин является важным аспектом ...
db.un.org.kg/upload/docs/publications/231.pdf
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:06:30 GMT)
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It is no good to translate proverbs word-for-word, in the Kyrgyz version this proverb says "there are bans/taboos from 40 places for a girl"
кыз - girl
кырк - forty
these words sounding somewhat similar form a nice proverb.
All it says there are many more bans / taboos for the girls vs.boys
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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:15:23 GMT)
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Turkic nations use "forty" meaning "many" or "lots".
E.g. an Uzbek proverb says:
Для доброго молодца и сорока ремёсел мало.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:16:48 GMT)
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(йигит кишига кирк хунар хам оз)
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:54:17 GMT)
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Well, sorry Marina, in my view it IS "pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do". The question was about the meaning of the proverb; community and other things come after.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:55:18 GMT)
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and I have posted this five hours earlier than you.
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:01:19 GMT)
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PDF] ФЕРГАНСКАЯ ДОЛИНА: ВЫЗОВЫ ВРЕМЕНИFayl formati (turi): PDF/Adobe Acrobat - GTBT(Giper Text Belgilash Tili)da ko'rsat
в Кыргызстане – «кызга кырк жерден тыйуу», что означает «для девочек – сорок. запретов». Вопрос о механизмах защиты прав женщин является важным аспектом ...
db.un.org.kg/upload/docs/publications/231.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-03-07 07:06:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It is no good to translate proverbs word-for-word, in the Kyrgyz version this proverb says "there are bans/taboos from 40 places for a girl"
кыз - girl
кырк - forty
these words sounding somewhat similar form a nice proverb.
All it says there are many more bans / taboos for the girls vs.boys
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:15:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Turkic nations use "forty" meaning "many" or "lots".
E.g. an Uzbek proverb says:
Для доброго молодца и сорока ремёсел мало.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-07 07:16:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(йигит кишига кирк хунар хам оз)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:54:17 GMT)
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Well, sorry Marina, in my view it IS "pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do". The question was about the meaning of the proverb; community and other things come after.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-07 15:55:18 GMT)
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and I have posted this five hours earlier than you.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Alexander Onishko
5 hrs
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спасибо
|
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| agree |
Hana Stosic
6 hrs
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спасибо
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| agree |
David Knowles
: This is an interesting question I've just come across! Does сорок come from кырк?
2 days 9 hrs
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Thank you, 'кырк' means 'forty', I do not know what word it comes from
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you Zamira for all the references. I will post a general note about what I think I will do in English, but I especially appreciate the cultural comments."
+2
1 hr
Marina Khonina
Canada
Canada
Native in Russian
&
English
Works in field
Canada
Project manager. Conference interpreter.
Native in: Russian 
, English
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
possible definition (see below)
It looks like the proverb means that the girl's family and community (thus the reference to 40 houses) must instill traditional values in her and warn her about the possible consequences of dating boys.
Here's an example:
"Дело в том, что я еще не замужем. Как говорят казахи, засиделась на родительской половине. Да и разборчивая очень в юности была. Не было желания знакомиться с первым встречным. Я воспитывалась в строгих правилах, совсем как в народной пословице «Для девушки запрет из сорока домов». Мои родители современные люди, не догадались просватать меня, по обычаю, еще в колыбели. "
http://www.ktko.org/pyesya_show.asp?id=25
I forwarded this question to my friends in Kazakhstan, who may be familiar with the proverb. I will let you know if they come up with a better definition.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-07 11:30:45 GMT)
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I got a reply from my Kazakh friends, and here's what they say about the meaning of this proverb: "A girl's (young woman's) life is more difficult than that of a man, and for this reason she should be taught self-restraint and chastity."
They said that the wording of the proverb was correct ("40 houses", not "40 taboos"), but it looks like the meaning is that girls face many taboos, so Zamira's on the right track.
However, I don't think that it would be appropriate to use "forty taboos" in your context, because it looks like the author tries to use the proverb to support her (or his) statement that a girl should be warned about certain things, rather than pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do.
Here's an example:
"Дело в том, что я еще не замужем. Как говорят казахи, засиделась на родительской половине. Да и разборчивая очень в юности была. Не было желания знакомиться с первым встречным. Я воспитывалась в строгих правилах, совсем как в народной пословице «Для девушки запрет из сорока домов». Мои родители современные люди, не догадались просватать меня, по обычаю, еще в колыбели. "
http://www.ktko.org/pyesya_show.asp?id=25
I forwarded this question to my friends in Kazakhstan, who may be familiar with the proverb. I will let you know if they come up with a better definition.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-07 11:30:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I got a reply from my Kazakh friends, and here's what they say about the meaning of this proverb: "A girl's (young woman's) life is more difficult than that of a man, and for this reason she should be taught self-restraint and chastity."
They said that the wording of the proverb was correct ("40 houses", not "40 taboos"), but it looks like the meaning is that girls face many taboos, so Zamira's on the right track.
However, I don't think that it would be appropriate to use "forty taboos" in your context, because it looks like the author tries to use the proverb to support her (or his) statement that a girl should be warned about certain things, rather than pointing out that a girl is not allowed to do many things that boys are free to do.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Marta Argat
: I friend of mine from Uzbekistan explained that to me the same way: the whole community watches over a girl's behavior, not only her parents :O
5 hrs
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Thank you. I think it would make sense to emphasize the community aspect, rather than restrictions, in Dorene's context.
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| neutral |
Zamira B.
: I did say 'there are many more bans for the grls than for the boys' so i believe it is appropriate
7 hrs
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Zamira, I did not mean to argue with you. When I first posted my answer, there were no other answers so I thought I'd venture a guess.
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| agree |
Alexander Demyanov
8 hrs
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Thank you, Alexander.
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7 hrs
<explanation>
Вполне возможно, что в казахском, как и в русском (ср. "сорок сороков") число 40 -- в контексте пословиц и т.п. -- просто является синонимом понятия "много". Во мн. языках (в т.ч., в русском) ту же функцию выполняет число 7 ("Семь бед -- один ответ").
А "дом" -- это, видимо, "род", "племя".
Другими словами, "ее должны предостерегать со всех сторон"
А "дом" -- это, видимо, "род", "племя".
Другими словами, "ее должны предостерегать со всех сторон"
Discussion
The context is comments about sex education and whether girls or boys should be told more, whether they should be told the same things... This is the whole comment: Лучше у девочек должно быть больше информации. Потому что мальчики сделают свое дело и все, а мучаться, переживать придется девочке. Поэтому ей надо говорить, больше объяснять. У нас у казахов говорят: «Девочке запрет из 40 домов», то есть предостерегать нужно.