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每小时翻译字数 Thread poster: XIAODAN SUN
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 04:57
Chinese to English
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Alan Wang wrote:
wherestip,
You don't have to embarrass yourself to be courteous to me.
Bring it on. (Is that what they say it in America?)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
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Loise wrote:
这样的困难不是源于一个人的英文能力，而是一个人理解、分析和诠释文本的能力
......
所以理想的译者，不但要具备足够的语言能力，同时也要像文学系的人一样，具备对文本和语言结构进行分析的能力，后者才是一个称职的译者有别于一般native speakers和普通能熟练地掌握外语的人的关键。
此言极是！
有的朋友英文水平本不错的，但是由于局限于从片面的字面意思来理解文本，而没有从整个文本的 Context 出发进行理解，结果造成了令人遗憾的误解！！实在是可惜可叹的！！
[Edited at 2013-04-24 08:07 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
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我开始对李的做法就觉得奇怪，为什么？根据字典释意去揣测巫的理解有误！得了吧，你自己真有那么大的理解力，还要借助词典吗？而且词典在这种情况下绝对管用吗？他自己在借助词典过程中却暴露出自己的一个理解问题（veteran），而且是真的理解问题，不是想象的。
我只是简单看一下，就知道巫的理解没什么问题。问题出在转换方面。
对于文学翻译作品，如果吹毛求疵的话，即便是所谓公认的大翻译家的名译，你随手翻开几页，也能吹得满嘴都是毛！
话又说回来，对于某些人的吹毛求疵，还是可以忍受甚至肯定的。为什么？因为他们在吹过以后，敢于给出自己的译文，这就不同了，包括李。
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Loise
France
Local time: 11:57
French to Chinese
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J.H. Wang wrote:
Loise wrote:
这样的困难不是源于一个人的英文能力，而是一个人理解、分析和诠释文本的能力
......
所以理想的译者，不但要具备足够的语言能力，同时也要像文学系的人一样，具备对文本和语言结构进行分析的能力，后者才是一个称职的译者有别于一般native speakers和普通能熟练地掌握外语的人的关键。
此言极是！
有的朋友英文水平本不错的，但是由于局限于从片面的字面意思来理解文本，而没有从整个文本的 Context 出发进行理解，结果造成了令人遗憾的误解！！实在是可惜可叹的！！ [Edited at 2013-04-24 08:07 GMT]
原来我不想再继续坚持我的看法，让 curious natures 保持它的歧义，既然你不但要固执己见，而且还要挑衅，那就来吧。
有个关键在于：你们的context-ism的arguments并没有说服我。我不认为 Gatsby 一文的 context 强迫我们应该把 curious natures 解释为人。即使context的对应可以为你的解释圆场，却 open up a linguistic dilemma that you are unable to resolve。只要和open up的用法有关的linguistic dilemma存在，your context-ist argument is unsound。 因为即使把 curious natures解释为figurative，将它视为personification的用法，这还是行不通的，因为：
If the term “curious natures” was deliberately personified to mean “curious persons,” curious natures would have been used in the sentence as if they were persons, but not just as “natures.” That is, “a habit that had opened up many curious natures to me” should be constructed like “a habit that had made many curious natures open up to me”- this is how sentences are made when a personification approach is applied. Therefore, once again, saying that it is a figurative approach cannot stand, because it does not solve the linguistic problem.
OK，我不想再对此多做评论了。关于 curious natures 的讨论已经变成一个 veteran bore了。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Chinese
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
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| 拖出来了，发现果然是马。 | Apr 24, 2013 |
我本人对此的兴趣没有那么大，所以只说我觉得可以说或愿意说的。也没多少精力花在上面。
你又把我那个帖子起上来了，是不是怕人不知道你有过那么一次成功做马的经历？ 
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 05:57
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| veni, vidi, vici | Apr 24, 2013 |
「國家不幸詩家幸」 余英時
巫寧坤先生《一滴淚》
余英時
我歸來、我受難、我倖存
大約十年前，我便讀了《一滴淚》的英文原本A Single Tear。當時感受很深，至今猶在記憶中。這是我讀到的第一部「右派分子」的自述。運用高超的文學剪裁，把二、三十年的苦難——從個人、家庭到親友——生動地勾勒了出來。作者文筆的流暢自然，顯示出他... See more 「國家不幸詩家幸」 余英時
巫寧坤先生《一滴淚》
余英時
我歸來、我受難、我倖存
大約十年前，我便讀了《一滴淚》的英文原本A Single Tear。當時感受很深，至今猶在記憶中。這是我讀到的第一部「右派分子」的自述。運用高超的文學剪裁，把二、三十年的苦難——從個人、家庭到親友——生動地勾勒了出來。作者文筆的流暢自然，顯示出他在英美文學與語言上的深厚造詣。他將三十年的坎坷人生歸結為“I came. I suffered. I survived”(「我歸來、我受難、我倖存」)，尤使我為之擊節。在中國文史傳統中，這正是所謂「春秋筆法」。當然，作者的雋語是從凱撒（Julius Caesar）的名言：“I came, saw and overcame”(拉丁原文是veni, vidi, vici)脫化而出的，經過莎翁的引用，（As You Like It V.ii）在西方早已家喻戶曉。但作者融合中西的文學修養和匠心獨運，即此可見。
http://www.books.com.tw/exep/prod/booksfile.php?item=0010365530 ▲ Collapse
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ysun
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Chinese
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Alan Wang wrote:
你又把我那个帖子起上来了，是不是怕人不知道你有过那么一次成功做马的经历？
我没那个意思。如果你如此理解的话，是不是意味着你在潜意识中已经把自己比作驴了？ ：D
我是不主张把人比做驴或马的。我发现你与那位“天才翻译家”有许多相似之处，这可是夸你哟！
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ysun
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Chinese
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| “hollow talk” | Apr 24, 2013 |
Alan Wang wrote:
我本人对此的兴趣没有那么大，所以只说我觉得可以说或愿意说的。也没多少精力花在上面。
既然这样，你就不要信口就说别人的发言是 “big and hollow talk”。再说，你根本就没仔细看别人的发言就乱下结论，难道这不是 hollow talk 吗？
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
babysitting your buddy is good.
But, he is a big boy I am sure.
ysun wrote:
Alan Wang wrote:
我本人对此的兴趣没有那么大，所以只说我觉得可以说或愿意说的。也没多少精力花在上面。
既然这样，你就不要信口就说别人的发言是 “big and hollow talk”。再说，你根本就没仔细看别人的发言就乱下结论，难道这不是 hollow talk 吗？
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
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| Discretion is the better part of valor | Apr 25, 2013 |
J.H. Wang wrote:
有的朋友英文水平本不错的，但是由于局限于从片面的字面意思来理解文本，而没有从整个文本的 Context 出发进行理解，结果造成了令人遗憾的误解！！实在是可惜可叹的！！
I am so sorry I am misunderstood. To be safe, this time I quote only my own words.
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ysun
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
得道者多助，失道者寡助。这是初中语文课本里就有的内容，没上过大学的人也不至于不知道吧？
Alan Wang wrote:
babysitting your buddy is good.
But, he is a big boy I am sure.
ysun wrote:
Alan Wang wrote:
我本人对此的兴趣没有那么大，所以只说我觉得可以说或愿意说的。也没多少精力花在上面。
既然这样，你就不要信口就说别人的发言是 “big and hollow talk”。再说，你根本就没仔细看别人的发言就乱下结论，难道这不是 hollow talk 吗？
[Edited at 2013-04-26 01:46 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 04:57
Chinese to English
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| What is wrong with the "no contest" comment? | Apr 25, 2013 |
Alan,
Did I ever nitpick on anyone's English-to-Chinese translation in this forum? As far as I remember, I never intentionally did so. Actually, I seldom ever comment on other people's Chinese rendering. Like I mentioned before in this thread, once the essence of an English term, phrase, or sentence is truly understood, the Chinese rendering is academic. This has been my opinion since day 1. It's exactly due to this belief that I seldom make comments on others' Chinese phrasing... See more Alan,
Did I ever nitpick on anyone's English-to-Chinese translation in this forum? As far as I remember, I never intentionally did so. Actually, I seldom ever comment on other people's Chinese rendering. Like I mentioned before in this thread, once the essence of an English term, phrase, or sentence is truly understood, the Chinese rendering is academic. This has been my opinion since day 1. It's exactly due to this belief that I seldom make comments on others' Chinese phrasing or rendering.
That said, if I accidentally did ever come across as nitpicking on someone's work in the past, I apologize to whomever I did it to.
As for the occasional comprehension issue of English words or sentences that people bring to the forum for discussion, I typically would offer some assistance if I could - you especially in this regard. For one, you bring your problems to the forum more often. Secondly, you seem to me to be less sensitive to others' making suggestions or feeling embarrassed about it, which I think is a good thing. Like you said, we're all grown adults here, and everyone understands English. Isn't explaining something in English good enough? Or do you think it is necessary for others to always spoon-feed a Chinese translation to you?
By "no contest", I meant Wu's translation is a lot better than Li's. You yourself agree that Li's version of that sentence has some comprehension problems too, don't you? What's wrong with the categorical comment of "no contest"? Don't you think the reason for me making that comment came out in the subsequent discussions?
[Edited at 2013-04-25 03:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 04:57
English to Chinese
Loise wrote:
当我读到：“每逢我根据某种明白无误的迹象看出又有一次倾诉衷情在地平线上喷薄欲出的时候”，即使读了好几遍译文的上下文，还是意会不到“又有一次倾诉衷情在地平线上喷薄欲出”的真正意思。起初误以为是有个心潮澎湃的人要对他表露爱意，看了英文才明白，原来是又有人想要对他倾吐心里话了。是我中文不好吗？
我觉得，每一个普通中国人读到这句都是这样的感觉。所以，李对巫的这段译文的批评不是完全没有道理。但到现在为止，巫之后的所有版本，包括我自己的，都只是把大致相同的意思说的顺畅自然了些而已。暮然回首，却觉得少了点什么。而且是非常重要的东西。这段文字的灵气没了。
“an intimate revelation was quivering on
the horizon” 这种表示方式，在英文文献中也是绝无仅有，也不是十分顺畅、十分自然。我就看到过讲英语的人士谈论读这段话时的困扰。这种奇谲的想象和淡淡的嘲讽，应该作者笔风的特色之一。很难想象今后任何人的作品里还会出现同样的隐喻。这句话就在一定程度上成了文学上不朽的东西。我们如果真的这样交卷，否定了巫版换上李版或其他什么版本，中国的读着就永无可能领略作者的真正风采了。岂不罪过！这样看来，在没有出现更理想的版本之前，巫版尽管夸张、突兀、佶屈聱牙，却仍有其存在价值。因为只有这个版本在一定程度上保留了原著的骨血。
[Edited at 2013-04-25 02:56 GMT]
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请诸位同仁展开讨论时尽量勿离开原发贴者的主题太远～
http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4
4 Replies should not stray from the posted topic. When responding to a topic, stick to the topic as introduced. To change the discussion, it is necessary to post a new topic.
在下请各位多多理解，感谢大家的合作！
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