| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Payment for a terrible translation? Thread poster: Laura Daly
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XXXphxxx (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:27
Portuguese to English
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As I understand, he's asking for 50% of 1/3 of roughly 5,000 words. You could refuse, pay 25% "out of principle" and that would be understandable, or you could choose to cut your losses and accept that, despite this translator's gross negligence, you did not conduct the due diligence that was required. I would work out what the sum means to you in terms of time discussing the issue on fora, researching similar cases and finding out about industry guidelines and then see if you still feel it's wo... See more As I understand, he's asking for 50% of 1/3 of roughly 5,000 words. You could refuse, pay 25% "out of principle" and that would be understandable, or you could choose to cut your losses and accept that, despite this translator's gross negligence, you did not conduct the due diligence that was required. I would work out what the sum means to you in terms of time discussing the issue on fora, researching similar cases and finding out about industry guidelines and then see if you still feel it's worth a potential dispute.
FWIW, in future, I wouldn't rely on Proz to find a professional translator. I only ever look for one in the directories of professional associations. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Deadlines and harm | May 31, 2013 |
Schtroumpf wrote:
I am amazed at the number of people in this thread who think very naturally that it is the outsourcer's fault if her professional translation partner fails to deliver quantity and quality on time.
I'm surprised too. If the translator had delivered late, but without causing the OP any harm in her relations with the end client and only causing her extra work, some people here would have said she should pay in full "because no harm was done after all" (I may be wrong, but I think I read such comments in another similar thread). I understand that not all legal systems love penalties, but breach of contract should be reflected in reduced payment.
If the OP is judged by the criteria of professionalism (i.e. thorough checking before outsourcing) and she should suffer the consequences (i.e. pay something), then so should the translator. Personally, I think partial payment is correct. It reflects that work has been done, but also that the service was deficient.
| | | | | Low payment = terrible translation | May 31, 2013 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I wouldn't rely on Proz to find a professional translator. I only ever look for one in the directories of professional associations.
WOW, Lisa, I guess outsourcers should not give you any consideration either since you are in Proz????
No one in this thread is asking Laura how much she agreed to pay for the translation. Considering that she listed "preference given to TRADOS users", I am wondering whether she got exactly what she "bargained" for! And without seeing the translation, or the entire email thread between her and translator, I am a bit of a doubting Thomas here.
Also, I am gloating a bit from the sidelines because I submitted a quote for that particular job and did not even receive the courtesy of a short reply thanking me for applying (commonly done by good outsources). So taking no time before assigning a job is now taking a lot of her time discussing the horrible experience she got herself into!
I am wondering about this because I quoted a very reasonable rate for what was described as technical telecommunications text, I have to admit I felt both relieved at not having to sacrifice my weekend to help a colleague and surprised at not being selected. I remember too well thinking that either this outsourcer was only trying to find out other colleagues' rates or trying to find someone to do it for next to nothing salary wise!
I once turned down an offer from the President of an U.S. translation agency based on my "gut feeling" only to discover a few months later that the agency in question gave the job to a colleague of ours but when the bill arrived that translator had become "the worst translator ever who made them lose a client" despite the fact that that same translator had provided "excellent translations" earlier. $2,000 dollars still owed to that translator! That is why I love the BlueBoard, it offers a glimpse into both outsourcers and vendors.
[Edited at 2013-05-31 14:02 GMT]
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:27
Portuguese to English
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| ? That is not what I said | May 31, 2013 |
Michelle Kusuda wrote:
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I wouldn't rely on Proz to find a professional translator. I only ever look for one in the directories of professional associations.
WOW, Lisa, I guess outsourcers should not give you any consideration either since you are in Proz????
I wouldn’t look for a translator on Proz but obviously nor would I discount someone because they have a profile on here. There is no vetting procedure whatsoever for setting up a profile, claiming qualifications and experience and then offering your services on this site. Need I say more?
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Laura Daly
Spain
Local time: 04:27
Member (2012)
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks to all! | May 31, 2013 |
Michelle Kusuda wrote:
I am wondering about this because I quoted a very reasonable rate for what was described as technical telecommunications text, I have to admit I felt both relieved at not having to sacrifice my weekend to help a colleague and surprised at not being selected. I remember too well thinking that either this outsourcer was only trying to find out other colleagues' rates or trying to find someone to do it for next to nothing salary wise!
[Edited at 2013-05-31 14:02 GMT]
I didn't like your profile as much as the translator I selected, that is so shocking to you? You automatically presume you are the best available? That must be a nice way to look at the world
Lisa, I understand your point, I could add to my profile "Fluent in Arabic, Chinese and Wolof", and no one would have to question me.
Before this turns into all sorts of tangents, I have decided to pay the translator the 50% offered on his delivery, and write up some kind of agreement as mentioned by earlier posters which would specify consequences in this kind of situation.
Thanks to all who responded, have a nice weekend wherever in the world you are!
| | | | | We can discuss this on another thread | May 31, 2013 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
Michelle Kusuda wrote:
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I wouldn't rely on Proz to find a professional translator. I only ever look for one in the directories of professional associations.
WOW, Lisa, I guess outsourcers should not give you any consideration either since you are in Proz????
I wouldn’t look for a translator on Proz but obviously nor would I discount someone because they have a profile on here. There is no vetting procedure whatsoever for setting up a profile, claiming qualifications and experience and then offering your services on this site. Need I say more?
I agree on the first part of no vetting for setting up a profile, but then there are CVs, references, and eventually Blueboard feedback! There is also "Google" and "LinkedN" where you can check some outsourcers and vendors! I do! I do not like sending my CV to just anyone!
| | | | | A self-claimed, deregulated profession | May 31, 2013 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
FWIW, in future, I wouldn't rely on Proz to find a professional translator. I only ever look for one in the directories of professional associations.
Lisa, you may use Proz, the Yellow Pages, whatever to find professional translators. I recall one thread here about translation being a self-claimed profession, perhaps like healers, handymen, etc.
However it is unsafe to use anything other than your best judgment to actually select a translator and assign them a job.
I'll never forget the case of a successful Brazilian writer, who had sold out two editions of each of her two books, that I'd classify as "esoteric romances" for genre. She decided to have these books translated into EN, FR, and DE, made a list of possible local translators, and gave them a short test: one page from each book.
She was dismayed at the results. When we eventually met, I asked her where she had found these translators, and realized how she had found me (we did several projects together afterwards): the Sao Paulo State sworn translators' official directory!
Well, Brazilian sworn translators are thoroughly examined before being appointed as such, however most - or many - specialize in legal documents, not having been ascertained as suitable for translating literature.
So any translators directory or web site like Proz merely lists people who self-claim to be translators. As the profession - unlike e.g. medicine - is deregulated, specialties are not clearly defined, and a translator having more than one specialty area is rather the rule than the exception. If medicine were deregulated like translation, you might wind up e.g. having your laryngitis diagnosed and treated by an orthopedist, just because the latter was on the licensed MDs list!
Regarding the original post here, if that file is on Word, I'd load both that translator's and the final translation together in Comparison mode, and ask that translator's opinion on how much they think their job is worth.
From the information given here, chances are that the translator will notice that the changes were not merely a proofreader's attempt to justify their existence and sell their wares, in order to garner the next job's better-paying translator role.
| | | | | Can't fully avoid payment | May 31, 2013 |
Sorry to hear about that awful situation, Laura. Like others say, you most probably can't avoid payment altogether; on the other hand, it would be hard to claim anything more than 33% from you merely on account of the fact that you forced that already lade partial delivery. A 50% deduction seems to be standard practice for really bad translations. Damages would be hard to pursue unless you had some concrete evidence and had warned the translator of possible consequences.
Just like w... See more Sorry to hear about that awful situation, Laura. Like others say, you most probably can't avoid payment altogether; on the other hand, it would be hard to claim anything more than 33% from you merely on account of the fact that you forced that already lade partial delivery. A 50% deduction seems to be standard practice for really bad translations. Damages would be hard to pursue unless you had some concrete evidence and had warned the translator of possible consequences.
Just like with small claims collection, I'm going to tell you what I tell everybody else: think how much time and stress the hassle would cost you. Preferably just cut it right there and move on. Earning new money is faster than recovering old.
For the future, I'd suggest requiring a signed commitment to be faxed or scanned and e-mailed to you ASAP with further commitment to snail-mail a hard copy (visible on the faxed one).
It should mention the deadline in large, bold font. Then add, 'time is of the essence,' and some representations:
– 'the translator represents and warrants that the translator has enough time to complete the job within the deadline';
– 'the translator represents and warrants that the translator will not accept any further jobs where doing so might jeopardise the timely completion of this job';
– 'the translator undertakes to be honest and forthright in communication about any possibility of failing to keep the deadline, including but not limited to the current and expected progress of work';
– 'the translator acknowledges and stipulates that no payment shall in any case be due for any part of work not actually done prior to the deadline';
– 'the translator acknowledges that should the translator fail to keep the deadline, the translator may be charged with any reasonable rush fees such as may be necessary to minimise the delay'.
The above is a bare minimum. You can add more meat on the bones, such as deductions for poor quality of work etc. Preferably have a locally admitted lawyer look at it (for your jurisdiction and other typical jurisdictions if you don't want to alienate translators with forcing the choice of your law and courts on them).
The language is relatively strong, so you may want to assure translators that you respect them and their work, but you need some really concrete assurance that the deadline will be met. I have actually seen (and signed) 'upon my honour' commitments. Now that's something bigger than a simple contract.
And do the negative WWA. Not only did the translator fail to deliver the job on time as promised, but you also got only a third of the work 8 hours after the deadline, amidst completely unprofessional comments such as telling you to relax, or that it's only 8 hours. Also, and more importantly, the translator deceived you about being able to complete the job on time or with minimal delay in assuring you that everything was all right when it clearly was not. Missing a deadline is one thing. Botching a rush job is another. Lying and being rude is a whole different cup of fish, though.
Speaking of which, for rush jobs you do need to think about the risk. I believe it is not appropriate to put the risk on the translator unless the translator actually makes assurances that the risk will be avoided. Whoever wants a rush translation needs to accept the rush risk. ▲ Collapse
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rainimunti (X)
Algeria
Local time: 04:27
English to Indonesian
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| publish the translator | May 31, 2013 |
hi i'm new member.
i'm sorry to hear your story, as a translator this such mustn't happen. i treat my client very nicely. i determine to the services of minimum errors of words, finish before deadline, on time, communicable.
this translator who work for you, kind of make me angry. hes such a humiliation.
could you publish him, so this could be a lesson for him and yes no payment for him or at least 25% from the deal.
regards,
raini... See more hi i'm new member.
i'm sorry to hear your story, as a translator this such mustn't happen. i treat my client very nicely. i determine to the services of minimum errors of words, finish before deadline, on time, communicable.
this translator who work for you, kind of make me angry. hes such a humiliation.
could you publish him, so this could be a lesson for him and yes no payment for him or at least 25% from the deal.
regards,
raini munti ▲ Collapse
| | | | Russell Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:27
Italian to English
| No names please | May 31, 2013 |
rainimunti wrote:
could you publish him, so this could be a lesson for him
No names in the forums please. The WWA system is the place for this.
| | | | Kate Tomkins
Local time: 03:27
Member (2012)
German to English
| The translator did not finish the job | Jun 1, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
Just to get back to the OP's original question, i.e. whether she can legitimately refuse to pay for this terrible translation. My guess would be 'no'.
You chose the translator and asked him to do a job for you, he did a job.
In this case, I'd say: Accept the 50 % discount, learn from the experience and leave it behind you.
But he only did a third of the job - surely a 60% discount would be logical?
In addition, the translation delivered was full of errors. Take another 10% off for this reason.
Furthermore, it was 8 hours late. Take off another 10% as a penalty.
So the OP should pay 20% of the originally agreed price. I think this is fair in this situation.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| From the translator's perspective... | Jun 1, 2013 |
KateKaminski wrote:
But he only did a third of the job - surely a 60% discount would be logical?
The reason he did only 1/3 of the job is because his client told him, at very short notice, to stop translating. What if he says that he should be compensated for having set aside the time to do the translation (i.e. not accepted any other jobs from other clients for that timeslot)?
Besides, this logic won't fly in our industry -- imagine telling your clients that you will do only 90% of each job, but that you consider that to be okay because they only need to pay you 90% of the agreed rate.
In addition, the translation delivered was full of errors. Take another 10% off for this reason.
The translation was full of errors because the client insisted that he deliver the translation before he was done with it. He didn't perform any proofreading or QA on it yet because he was still busy with it, and then the client started insisting that he delivers what he has done so far.
Furthermore, it was 8 hours late. Take off another 10% as a penalty.
There are agencies that penalise translators by percentage if they deliver late, and I can tell you the percentage is not 10% for eight hours. More like 10% per hour.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
And do the negative WWA.
How does one do that, Łukasz?
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:27
Hebrew to English
| Am I missing something? | Jun 1, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The reason he did only 1/3 of the job is because his client told him, at very short notice, to stop translating.
At short notice? It was after the deadline!
The translation was full of errors because the client insisted that he deliver the translation before he was done with it. He didn't perform any proofreading or QA on it yet because he was still busy with it
Before he was done with it, but after the deadline! He shouldn't have "still been busy" with it.
His proverbial "leg to stand on" is well and truly crippled.
| | | | | Shared fault? | Jun 1, 2013 |
Translator lacking the slightest notion of professionalism or honour, outsourcer dumb enough to award an untried translator a moderate sized job without establishing any kind of personal rapport or trust first. The OP's comments on not sourcing translators from ProZ are a tad insensitive, to say the least. Perhaps communication skills need to be improved here?
Steve K. (who wouldn't have paid the guy a penny for a third of a botched job miles wide of the deadline)
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