| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Payment for a terrible translation? Thread poster: Laura Daly
|
|---|
| No need to read any further | May 30, 2013 |
Laura Daly wrote:
This week I received a very large project for a brand new client, which I knew I could not handle by myself.
This is one of the topics in which I know I do not need to ready any further. If it was a new customer (whose business/products/services you don't know well, perhaps), the project was very large, and you could not do it personally to ensure quality and customer satisfaction... then you should have said so politely to the customer and let them grant you more time or give it to some other translator. It is really the best thing to do in some situations!
| | | | | Pay 100% and learn | May 30, 2013 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
If the answer for any of these questions is "no", then I say you may try negotiating with the translator, but it is likely that you would have to chalk it up to experience and pay. Education is not free.
I entirely agree. Personally I would pay the translator the 50% he/she has agreed to, although the lesson would sink in much more deeply by paying 100%. A non-payment would mean that our colleague would escape from the experience pretty much unharmed (although tired and disappointed, of course), and the lesson would probably be forgotten quickly.
| | | | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:05
Hebrew to English
| 50% of a third of the word count.... | May 30, 2013 |
Can't be that much money. I'm presuming he's only expecting to get paid for the 1666-ish words he delivered ("I expect to get paid for the work I did") and he's agreed to a 50% discount.
So the amount you end up paying him won't hurt your purse too much.
Chalk it up to experience, I think you know you aren't entirely blameless - mistakes were made on your part from the get-go, I'm sure you'll feel aggrieved having to pay him a penny, but the alternative isn't worth it... See more Can't be that much money. I'm presuming he's only expecting to get paid for the 1666-ish words he delivered ("I expect to get paid for the work I did") and he's agreed to a 50% discount.
So the amount you end up paying him won't hurt your purse too much.
Chalk it up to experience, I think you know you aren't entirely blameless - mistakes were made on your part from the get-go, I'm sure you'll feel aggrieved having to pay him a penny, but the alternative isn't worth it.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 19:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | If you offer peanuts you get monkeys for the job! | May 30, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Can't be that much money. I'm presuming he's only expecting to get paid for the 1666-ish words he delivered ("I expect to get paid for the work I did") and he's agreed to a 50% discount.
So the amount you end up paying him won't hurt your purse too much.
Chalk it up to experience, I think you know you aren't entirely blameless - mistakes were made on your part from the get-go, I'm sure you'll feel aggrieved having to pay him a penny, but the alternative isn't worth it.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 19:00 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
As see it, the fault is all yours. You selected the wrong translator, your problem, you did not schedule any time for proofreading, QA or unforeseen problems. Now you (as one of the certified professionals) should act as you expect a professional agency to act.
In my opinion, you should either pay 100% and learn how to run projects if you want to outsource them, or you should accept that you will be viewed as one oft the low quality box shifters who have no process in place to pre... See more As see it, the fault is all yours. You selected the wrong translator, your problem, you did not schedule any time for proofreading, QA or unforeseen problems. Now you (as one of the certified professionals) should act as you expect a professional agency to act.
In my opinion, you should either pay 100% and learn how to run projects if you want to outsource them, or you should accept that you will be viewed as one oft the low quality box shifters who have no process in place to prevent such problems.
Do I sound harsh, maybe, but unprofessional outsourcing is one of the pes.. in our industry. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 20:05
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Part payment | May 30, 2013 |
I would pay him for that part of the job he delivered on time with a substantial deduction for poor quality and lack of proofreading. I would not spend any time on track changes or further hassle - he can take it or leave it. Consider giving him a negative WWA to boot.
As others have stated, it's a lesson learned. Rather than outsourcing yourself, consider referring the client to one or two people you know and trust and the rest is up to the client.
| | | | | Negative WWA | May 30, 2013 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
Consider giving him a negative WWA to boot.
Yes, I would definitely recommend the OP to try and post a negative WWA for the translator.
This way she would realize that negative WWA-s cannot be posted, and perhaps she would reconsider a more thorough check of potential business partners.
She wrote:
I did not test his skills beforehand, but his profile has a lot of verified experience and positive customer feedback.
| | | | | Totally agree with Tomás and Ty | May 30, 2013 |
The 50% discount (of course only for the 1/3 of the file he translated) proposed by your colleague is actually quite a normal business practice if you ask me. I know that it's kind of weird because he didn't meet the deadline so you ended up with nothing at the time of delivery, but still he spent some time working, right?
It's his fault that he accepted the job, that he didn't finish it on time, that he didn't tell you and that there was no interim report about the status of this ... See more The 50% discount (of course only for the 1/3 of the file he translated) proposed by your colleague is actually quite a normal business practice if you ask me. I know that it's kind of weird because he didn't meet the deadline so you ended up with nothing at the time of delivery, but still he spent some time working, right?
It's his fault that he accepted the job, that he didn't finish it on time, that he didn't tell you and that there was no interim report about the status of this project, no doubt about that. On the other hand, you did some mistakes here as well. The first mistake was that you accepted the job, the second one was that there apparently wasn't any agreement on things like that BEFOREHAND. This should be clear before you both agree to a collaboration. Taking this into account, you shouldn't be too surprised if the other person didn't accept any discount on the 1/3 he translated because he didn't agree to anything like that (though this SHOULD BE accepted/offered by any translator who missed the deadline and delivered poor quality).
Maybe you might consider creating a list of things that need to be agreed on before a job gets assigned and send it when first contacting a colleague. Alternatively, you can always stop outsourcing jobs like that and tell your client that you won't be able to help them with a project.
I would pay the 50% he asked for and make a short note about this translator so that you know that he already caused a delay and poor quality. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:05
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Laura Daly wrote:
The translation was 8 hours late, of poor quality, incomplete, and on top of it all the translator was quite rude.
The rudeness is irrelevant.
I think legally speaking you must tell the translator if a deadline is a material element of the agreement, otherwise (from a legal perspective) the deadline is automatically considered somewhat flexible. As a translator I believe that deadlines are always hard, unless the handoff says otherwise, and I think it is reasonable for any outsourcer to assume that a translator will consider a deadline to be sacred, but from a legal perspective (this may vary according to country, though) it may have been better if you had told him explicitly that the deadline is a make-or-break element of the job. The fact that you did not follow up e.g. about 24 hours before the deadline also counts against you.
On the other hand, the deadline is stated *twice* in the jobs post, and if he had responded via the jobs posting system then he would have had to fill in the deadline himself a third time, so you may have a small leg to stand on if you decide to refuse payment due to a missed deadline.
His comment about not having proofread the file is understandable -- if he proofreads after he translates. His translation was not yet done, therefore he had not yet done the proofreading.
The fact that he had lied to you about whether the translation is completed even as you were chasing him counts against him. The proper thing to do when a translator realises that he has missed a deadline is to play open cards with the client so that the client and translator can both deal with it efficiently. Because if you had known that the translation was still e.g. 12 hours away from being finished, it would have placed you in a better position to decide how to deal with the situation.
[I've actually been in your situation myself, where a translator delivered 3 days late on a 48 hour deadline and expected to be paid in full, even though I could not reach him and even though I had to do the translation myself when I could not get a hold of him shortly after the deadline. I offered him 50% of the agreed price, and then he pulled the lawyer card (and it was a very good-looking card, too), so I ended up paying the full amount to avoid complications, cursing all the way.]
Is the translator a member of a translation association? If so, you can try to get them to arbitrate on the matter (if he's a member, he has signed an agreement with them, so he is bound by them).
I think you should comply with his request for detailled commentary on his translation. You don't have to comment on the entire translation but take a sample of e.g. 200-400 words and show why a simple proofread would not have been able to fix it and why it was necessary to do a full retranslate. If you can show that the translation was bad, then you can argue that he is not competent as a translator -- even an unproofread translation should show signs of quality.
He has offered to accept a reduction of 50% -- I think you should consider accepting it. You did not cover yourself sufficiently for the event of a bad translator, and that makes you liable.
My2c.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 21:47 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:05
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Negative WWA | May 30, 2013 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
Consider giving him a negative WWA to boot.
How does one do that, Tina?
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 00:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Her fault? Seriously? | May 30, 2013 |
- The translator failed to deliver the work by the agreed deadline. Unless the OP failed to send him/her the file on time, this has nothing to do with her project management skills
- Not only did the translator deliver late, they only delivered one third of the translation. Not even the whole document: 1/3 of it. Again, how is the OP to blame for this??
I do agree that this was perhaps poor management, but seriously. Laying all the blame on her is surreal to me. ... See more - The translator failed to deliver the work by the agreed deadline. Unless the OP failed to send him/her the file on time, this has nothing to do with her project management skills
- Not only did the translator deliver late, they only delivered one third of the translation. Not even the whole document: 1/3 of it. Again, how is the OP to blame for this??
I do agree that this was perhaps poor management, but seriously. Laying all the blame on her is surreal to me. What was she supposed to do to make sure an adult, supposedly responsible professional would meet their end of the agreement? Call them twice a day and ask "how are you getting along, and please don't forget the deadline"?
The lesson learned will most probably come in the form of her losing this client. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adrian Grant
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:05
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| An eye for an eye | May 30, 2013 |
Pay him a third of the amount he wants and, if he complains, tell him to relax and that you read your invoices quickly.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 21:00 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| So the translator is not at fault? | May 30, 2013 |
Siegfried Armbruster wrote:
As see it, the fault is all yours. You selected the wrong translator, your problem, you did not schedule any time for proofreading, QA or unforeseen problems. Now you (as one of the certified professionals) should act as you expect a professional agency to act.
In my opinion, you should either pay 100% and learn how to run projects if you want to outsource them, or you should accept that you will be viewed as one oft the low quality box shifters who have no process in place to prevent such problems.
Do I sound harsh, maybe, but unprofessional outsourcing is one of the pes.. in our industry.
Is the translator not responsible for his part of the agreement? From what we know, he did not meet the agreed upon deadline, he did not contact the outsourcer (Laura) to explain he had difficulties meeting the deadline, he delivered late and only part of his job and in poor quality.
Of course there were mistakes done on part of the outsourcer. However in this case these are non of the translator´s business, who simply failed to fulfill his part of the agreement.
As the translator seems to be willing to invoice only the part actually delivered and with a 50% discount, I would go for this, just to avoid a legal dispute. Nevertheless, I think there is no need to take all the blame and pay 100%.
Unless professional outsourcing means, the outsourcer is taking all the responsibility from the translator´s shoulders...
| | | | Laura Daly
Spain
Local time: 04:05
Member (2012)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lots of helpful opinions on here, thanks to all! (Some less helpful ones, 100% my fault? Really?! I'm a translator, not a babysitter.)
Samuel Murray, your post is particularly interesting, thank you.
As to negative WWA, no, I'd rather not. Partly because I think that would be excessively damaging to the translator, and partly because any visitors to this forum would identify the translator in question. I've received private messages asking who it is, which I won'... See more Lots of helpful opinions on here, thanks to all! (Some less helpful ones, 100% my fault? Really?! I'm a translator, not a babysitter.)
Samuel Murray, your post is particularly interesting, thank you.
As to negative WWA, no, I'd rather not. Partly because I think that would be excessively damaging to the translator, and partly because any visitors to this forum would identify the translator in question. I've received private messages asking who it is, which I won't respond to, it's not a witch hunt!
I would rather not pay a penny, but to avoid further issues etc. I think I will offer the translator 25% of the word count that was handed in. There were such blatant errors in parts that I wonder was an online translator used, for example:
ES: Anexo A, Anexo B, Anexo C.
Trans: Annex to, Annex B, Annex C.
I think 25%, given that the translation was unusable, is fair. I hope!
[Edited at 2013-05-31 10:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laura Daly
Spain
Local time: 04:05
Member (2012)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Siegfried Armbruster wrote:
You selected the wrong translator, your problem.
Tomorrow I might set up a garage. You take me your car, having read recommendations saying that I'm great. I destroy your brakes and you crash.
"Sorry, you picked the wrong mechanic! Your problem!"
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Payment for a terrible translation? | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | Pastey | Your smart companion app
Pastey is an innovative desktop application that bridges the gap between human expertise and artificial intelligence. With intuitive keyboard shortcuts, Pastey transforms your source text into AI-powered draft translations.
Find out more » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
