| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Requesting arbitration on quality Thread poster: Andrey Lipattsev
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Stephen Rifkind 
Israel
Local time: 22:48
Member (2004)
French to English
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| Common problem | Apr 13, 2007 |
I regret to say it, but this problem seems to arise often in Russian to English translations. The client feels (let us assume honestly) that the translation is less than ideal.
I think there are two specific causes:
Many Russians, especially from the Soviet era, were trained in translation, causing them to think they are experts.
Russian grammar structure is often so different from English one that it opens up a wide variety of translation possibilities, a... See more I regret to say it, but this problem seems to arise often in Russian to English translations. The client feels (let us assume honestly) that the translation is less than ideal.
I think there are two specific causes:
Many Russians, especially from the Soviet era, were trained in translation, causing them to think they are experts.
Russian grammar structure is often so different from English one that it opens up a wide variety of translation possibilities, all saying the same thing, but in a different way.
The only long term solution is client education. Informing new clients that that there are many ways to skin a cat, all okay, as long as the cat is nice and smooth in the end.
In the meantime, maybe offer artibration to the client?
Stephen Rifkind ▲ Collapse
| | | | Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 21:48
Member (2002)
English to German
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| You delivered the translation "a couple of months ago" - which payment term was agreed? | Apr 13, 2007 |
Hi Andrey,
Glaring "correction" mistakes aside (which reveal plain sloppiness on the part of the so-called "proofreader"), what puzzles me most is that you stated you had delivered the translation "a couple of months ago". So you should have been paid a long time ago provided you had agreed upon a fairly decent payment term.
It is also entirely unreasonable on the part of the end client to approach the agency after all this time and to delay payment on the grounds of b... See more Hi Andrey,
Glaring "correction" mistakes aside (which reveal plain sloppiness on the part of the so-called "proofreader"), what puzzles me most is that you stated you had delivered the translation "a couple of months ago". So you should have been paid a long time ago provided you had agreed upon a fairly decent payment term.
It is also entirely unreasonable on the part of the end client to approach the agency after all this time and to delay payment on the grounds of being "dissatisfied with translation quality". On the other hand, this might just be a welcome excuse that the agency is using in their communications with you.
Steffen ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrey Lipattsev
Ireland
Local time: 21:48
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks again to everyone... | Apr 13, 2007 |
...who has posted recently. As I might have mentioned already, the money involved in this case is insignificant. There were only a couple of pages, which is why I am not too bothered about the payment delay. I get a lot of good work from this agency and we'll even this out at some point, I am sure of it.
As for the client being an annoying "know-it-all", that's what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I've had clients comment on my translations before and request some modi... See more ...who has posted recently. As I might have mentioned already, the money involved in this case is insignificant. There were only a couple of pages, which is why I am not too bothered about the payment delay. I get a lot of good work from this agency and we'll even this out at some point, I am sure of it.
As for the client being an annoying "know-it-all", that's what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I've had clients comment on my translations before and request some modifications for the future in terms of terminology, style, etc. But I never had to read through a "proofread" of my translation that looks and sounds worse than the translation itself. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Can Altinbay
Local time: 15:48
Japanese to English
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In memoriam | How embarrassing | Apr 13, 2007 |
Andrey Lipattsev wrote:
What about: "What is permanent cellular polystyrene formwork means?" from the client's version?
This is clearly iffy grammar to me.
I didn't post the entire piece here, since that's not what the forum's for, but I appreciate your comments on what's already up there, as it represents the rest of the text pretty well.
[Редактировалось 2007-04-12 17:40]
[Редактировалось 2007-04-12 17:43]
I can't believe I missed that. It is not iffy, it is wrong.
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| Really Common | Apr 13, 2007 |
Hi Andrey,
It is something really common.
Recently, I had a similar issue (only the agency was with me). It was a client abroad... and their proofreader (who, according to my client, was probably their employee) really destroyed the translation. The text was English to Hindi. And I'm really proud of my level in this language (Hindi) and have published books and poems etc.
My client could see the glaring mistakes on part of the proofreader... I refused ... See more Hi Andrey,
It is something really common.
Recently, I had a similar issue (only the agency was with me). It was a client abroad... and their proofreader (who, according to my client, was probably their employee) really destroyed the translation. The text was English to Hindi. And I'm really proud of my level in this language (Hindi) and have published books and poems etc.
My client could see the glaring mistakes on part of the proofreader... I refused to make changes and gave detailed justifications (from grammars etc.) and do you know what the proofreader replied:
"I feel that my version is correct"
God... I was really angry. I'd given detailed, well-researched arguments for a language that I've been speaking every day since I was 8-9 months old and that I've studied for over 15 years (formal education) ...
and the reply of this person is: "I feel so".
When the document came to me the second time... I spoke with my client and we decided that it was useless arguing with someone like that (waste of our time) and both of us made the changes requested by the end-client and wrote in the end that we are changing the document as indicated by you, but we are not responsible for the translation its present form (for reasons cited before).
We know the client is happy at the end (because we've accepted his changes) so he'll pay. But no, I'm not happy.
Just one question, how can people be so ignorant about basic spelling and grammar issues of a language and still say that they are proof-readers?
I'd expect that someone who proof-reads my work is at least as educated as I am and has more credentials. I know we feel language... I know instinctively when I'm right or wrong but I can always find arguments from grammar and dictionaries so that people can understand the reason... but, well I'm speechless.
And the worst was... he made mistakes even while transliterating... now, I'd really like to question this proofreader's educational qualifications:
Word: Resumé
Transliteration: ResumI
How do you explain that?
Glad that my client knows the language and was equally shocked and is still with me.
[Edited at 2007-04-13 18:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 14:48
English to Russian
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| Run it by me again, please | Apr 13, 2007 |
rifkind wrote:
Many Russians, especially from the Soviet era, were trained in translation, causing them to think they are experts.
???????????
| | | | Richard Benham
France
Local time: 21:48
German to English
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In memoriam | A couple of points of idiom, and while I'm here.... | Apr 14, 2007 |
Hello. I am not good at Russian, but I observe serious problems of idiom in both versions. Here are a few, starting with some which are common to original and amended versions.
“The possibility to vary” is not English. You should say “the ability to vary”.
“To erect a construction” is a rather bizarre collocation. Why not “erect a building”?
“These are” is also definitely a no-no. It should be &ld... See more Hello. I am not good at Russian, but I observe serious problems of idiom in both versions. Here are a few, starting with some which are common to original and amended versions.
“The possibility to vary” is not English. You should say “the ability to vary”.
“To erect a construction” is a rather bizarre collocation. Why not “erect a building”?
“These are” is also definitely a no-no. It should be “They are”, or, for marketing, you could just about omit it altogether.
And now one that’s only in the “amended” version: “provide the popularity to” is, once again, not English.
To be brutally frank, both your version and the amended version scream “non-native!”. In fact, even if I did Russian>English, I would refuse to correct either of them, because I I have a policy of not dealing with obviously non-native translations. If it’s any consolation, the amended version is much worse.
However, you should remember that your client is the agent, whose liability to pay you is independent of whether or not his or her client pays.
Now, while I am here, I shall report something similar that happened to me. An end-client refused to pay, claiming that my translation had obviously been done by a non-native. To prove it, he had a “real” native speaker of English translate some of the text, and then laid the two alongside one another to show how different they were. The other guy was not claimed to be a professional translator, and it was obvious enough why. But I must say, some of the differences were amusing enough. (This was German-English.) I had made, for example, the “mistake” of using “executives” where the infallible one had used “management” (which is pretty poor as a translation for Führingskräfte), “personnel” rather than “Human Resources” (I should have realised that English now requires capital letters for nouns, and even adjectives when they happen to be part of stock phrases borrowed into German), “keeping an eye on” instead of “monitoring”.... This last one deserves comment. The text was about media monitoring, and there were already two German words (Beobachtung and Monitoring, used interchangeably) that I was translating as “monitoring”, which more or less had the status of a technical term in the text. In this particular passage, however, the German term used was im Auge halten which is as near as you can get to “keep an eye on”, and was used in a non-technical sense in a quote from a customer....
Anyway, this customer’s dissatisfaction with my work did not stop him from using it in his website, and once I noticed this his case was rather weak. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrey Lipattsev
Ireland
Local time: 21:48
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Richard! | Apr 14, 2007 |
Richard Benham wrote:
Hello. I am not good at Russian, but I observe serious problems of idiom in both versions. Here are a few, starting with some which are common to original and amended versions.
“These are” is also definitely a no-no. It should be “They are”, or, for marketing, you could just about omit it altogether.
It's always great to hear detailed and specific comments on a translation. Your own story was also quite illuminating. In my case the agency just asked me to provide them with some ammo in the form of my peer's comments. I got plenty of those. At any rate, enough, to justify my position.
On a separate note and just out of interest: why is "these are" a definite no-no?
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