| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Grammar: possessive apostrophe in 'years old' Thread poster: Richard Purdom
|
|---|
Thought I'd better ask here, since although I've taught English and should know this, I can't find out the definitive answer to whether a 10-year-old child should be described as
10 years' old
or
10 years old
My thinking is that it should be the first, like "10 minutes' walk", or "20 years' experience", and MS word agrees with me... but a PM does not!
Any ideas?
[Edited at 2016-03-28 15:26 GMT]
| | | | Max Deryagin 
Russian Federation
Local time: 22:10
English to Russian
Richard Purdom wrote:
Thought I'd better ask here, since although I've taught English and should know this, I can't find out the definitive answer to whether a 10 year-old child should be described as
10 years' old
or
10 years old
My thinking is that it should be the first, like "10 minutes' walk", or "20 years' experience", and MS word agrees with me... but a PM does not!
Any ideas?
Hi Richard,
It is either "10 minutes' walk" or "a 10-minute walk". Both are grammatically correct, although I'd prefer the latter.
Here's an article that explains this very well: http://random-idea-english.blogspot.ru/2014/01/a-ten-minute-walk-ten-minutes-walk.html
| | | |
To me, "10 years' old" looks wrong and I'd say "10 years old", but I can't prove I'm right! Why not avoid the controversy by saying "10 years of age"? Or "a child of ten"?
| | | | | 10-year-olds | Mar 28, 2016 |
“the child is 10 years old”
“it is a 10-year-old child”
To form an analogy with walk/experience, you’d need a noun, e.g. the child has 10 years’ oldness (hmm…).
Be careful with your use of “10 year-old child”. Compare:
“10 year-old children” (ten infants)
and
“10-year-old children” (unspecified number of children who will start terrorising you in about three years’ time – see what I did there?)
 ... See more “the child is 10 years old”
“it is a 10-year-old child”
To form an analogy with walk/experience, you’d need a noun, e.g. the child has 10 years’ oldness (hmm…).
Be careful with your use of “10 year-old child”. Compare:
“10 year-old children” (ten infants)
and
“10-year-old children” (unspecified number of children who will start terrorising you in about three years’ time – see what I did there?)
 ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Two different things | Mar 28, 2016 |
My thinking is that it should be the first, like "10 minutes' walk", or "20 years' experience", and MS word agrees with me... but a PM does not!
Your PM is right. "Walk" and "experience" are nouns. "Old" is not.
| | | | Richard Purdom
Portugal
Local time: 17:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Stuart Hoskins wrote:
“the child is 10 years old”
“it is a 10-year-old child”
To form an analogy with walk/experience, you’d need a noun, e.g. the child has 10 years’ oldness (hmm…).
Be careful with your use of “10 year-old child”. Compare:
“10 year-old children” (ten infants)
and
“10-year-old children” (unspecified number of children who will start terrorising you in about three years’ time – see what I did there?)
You're right, I should have written '10-year-old' as a compound adjective, I've edited it.
As for needing a noun: 'ten years of age', so none the wiser... you're right about teenagers though
[Edited at 2016-03-28 15:27 GMT]
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 18:10
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| 10 years old | Mar 28, 2016 |
Imo 10 years old
You'd say 1 year old or 10 years old, not 1 year's old or 10 years' old
but it would be 1 year's experience or 10 years' experience
From the guardian
If you can't use an apostrophe, you don't know your shit
Apostrophes are used in phrases such as two days' time and 12 years' jail, where the time period (two days) modifies a noun (time), but not in three weeks old or nine months pregnant, where the time period (three weeks) modifies an adjecti... See more Imo 10 years old
You'd say 1 year old or 10 years old, not 1 year's old or 10 years' old
but it would be 1 year's experience or 10 years' experience
From the guardian
If you can't use an apostrophe, you don't know your shit
Apostrophes are used in phrases such as two days' time and 12 years' jail, where the time period (two days) modifies a noun (time), but not in three weeks old or nine months pregnant, where the time period (three weeks) modifies an adjective (old). You can test this by trying the singular: one day's time, but one month pregnant.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2013/aug/16/mind-your-language-apostrophe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Richard Purdom
Portugal
Local time: 17:10
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | 'years old' it is | Mar 28, 2016 |
Alright, that's convinced me!
Thanks
| | |
|
|
|
Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
I shared Jenny's feelings about this:
Jenny Forbes wrote:
To me, "10 years' old" looks wrong and I'd say "10 years old", but I can't prove I'm right!
Thanks for posting the question Richard, and thanks to Alistair and Jo for giving the reasoning behind my preference.
| | | | Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 18:10
French to English
+ ...
| Not about possessive genitives - set theory | Mar 28, 2016 |
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Imo 10 years old
You'd say 1 year old or 10 years old, not 1 year's old or 10 years' old
but it would be 1 year's experience or 10 years' experience
From the guardian....
Gulp! - the 'Grauniad' is being quoted on matters grammatical and syntactical.
It's not about possessive genitives: 10 years' old is right as a set etymologically and philologically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 22:40
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | 10 years old of course | Mar 28, 2016 |
I don't have even an iota of doubt on this one, and I am no native speaker of English. In 10 years, "years" is just a unit (of time), as in 10 centimetres long, or 4,000 feet tall peak.
I am quite surprised that so many native English speakers are so flabbergasted by this simple query about their native language
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 17:10
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Bigger gulp! | Mar 28, 2016 |
Adrian MM. wrote:
Gulp! - the 'Grauniad' is being quoted on matters grammatical and syntactical.
It's not about possessive genitives: 10 years' old is right as a set etymologically and philologically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
Gulp! - a Wikipedia article on mathematics is being quoted on matters grammatical and syntactical.
| | |
|
|
|
Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 22:40
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Of course not | Mar 28, 2016 |
Your own reference link proves that 10 minutes' walk is wrong:
---
When the expression of time, measurement etc is used before an adjective
In the first of each pair, we use the first pattern, the same as before. But in the second example of each pair, the expression of time, measurement etc is being used adverbially, modifying the adjective, and doesn't take an apostrophe.
A ten-week-old baby
The baby is ten weeks old
A two-hundred-kilometre-long river
The river is two hundred kilometres long
Note: pregnant etc - there are one or two exceptions where we use a plural number in the first pattern:
The woman is three months pregnant
She is a three-months-pregnant woman
---
10 minutes walk is correct.
10 minute's walk would mean "a walk in which 10 minutes are participating" or, if you see 10 minutes walking along somewhere, you can describe this situation as "a 10 minute's walk"!
| | | | Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 18:10
French to English
+ ...
| Native speaking vs. squealing | Mar 28, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
......
I am quite surprised that so many native English speakers are so flabbergasted by this simple query about their native language
It is not a simple query, there being a chasm between strictly correct grammatical, stylistically balanced and idiomatic or colloquial use that hardens into a convention.
There is as yet - unlike France & Spain - no ultimate authority on the English language, neither the OED = Oxford English Dictionary nor the American Miriam Webster, plus there are acceptable permutations and combinations e.g. Leicester City FC *is or are* in line to win the English Premier League, the ship the British Merchant Navy sails on is a *she*, whilst a vessel the British Royal Navy steers is now referred to as 'it'.
The different opinions are what *strikes or strike* me as being a matter of style.
By the same token, 10 years' old has - like the word disinterested going from non-partisan to uninterested - turned into a set expression by habit and idomatic use cf. the set theory in lingusitics
https://www.um.edu.mt/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/84313/ffLecture1.pdf
[Edited at 2016-03-28 19:57 GMT]
| | | | | Flabbergasted? | Mar 29, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Your own reference link proves that 10 minutes' walk is wrong:
10 minutes walk is correct.
Bala, you may wish to revise your standpoint. English has plenty of native speakers who get language-related things like this wrong, though that likely applies to most languages in a lot of cases....
You're right in that it's 10 years old, w/o apostrophe.
But later you say "10 minutes walk" is correct.
Would that not imply "10 years' experience" is wrong?
Or how do you see it?
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Grammar: possessive apostrophe in 'years old' | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
