Zahar Fialkovsky Oct 18, 2010:

О терминологии Нужно сказать, что сегодня это выражение нельзя называть "фразой", или "цитатой" (quotation). В точном лингвистическом смысле слова это - поговорка "proverb, saying", т.е. с точки зрения российской лингвистической традиции - совершенно особая лингвистическая единица. Она существует в языковом узусе независимо от источника, давшего ей жизнь.

Eric Candle Oct 17, 2010:

"Мавр сделал..." - "Заговор Фиеско" Фраза стала популярной в Союзе ТОЛЬКО после невероятного успеха спектакля Малого театра (1980). "По какой-то непонятной причине она настолько полюбилась народу, что послужила источником для многочисленных пародий и переделок".

Kiwiland Bear Oct 16, 2010:

Ah, but you heard it from a *professor* I'm not surprised he knew where it comes from.

Rachel Douglas Oct 16, 2010:

Interesting I first heard this as a Russian phrase from a Russian professor, who also told me that it came from Schiller. After I asked about it, we ended up having a discussion about how its usage compares with that of "Караул устал"! I learned a lot that day. Later, the same gentlemen used it in the company of some Germans, and they all were familiar with the expression and knew that it was from Schiller.

Kiwiland Bear Oct 16, 2010:

It's not really commonplace - - that's why I said "people who even heard of that". But it's not too uncommon either and, if someone comes across it (most often in ironic sense) they will commonly assume Othello at al.

Rachel Douglas Oct 16, 2010:

Not sure about that. When did the phrase become so commonplace in Russian and other European languages? When I was checking this out, I saw some guy describing it as "a saying we have here in Hungary." Was it in the 19th century? Schiller was significantly better known than Shakespeare in those days (the translation efforts in Russian of Kyukhelbeker and even Pushkin notwithstanding), as can be seen from the enormous attention to the Schiller anniversary in 1859, including in Russia. ... Anyway, I was only responding to the asker's now-disappeared message, which thanked someone for explaining to her that it was from Shakespeare.

Kiwiland Bear Oct 16, 2010:

I think it's even funnier: You are of course correct as far as literature goes. But... in common Russian usage, people who even heard of that, often (nearly always I would say) associate it with Othello and Desdemona. Do I need to point out what act by Othello they have in mind when they use this expression?

Irene Woodhead (asker) Oct 16, 2010:

Yeah, that's right, it's Schiller.

Rachel Douglas Oct 16, 2010:

Schiller, not Shakespeare I received an e-mail, which I don't see here, in which the asker talked about discovering that this was from Shakespeare. Just in case this isn't already clear: it's not from Shakespeare. It really is from Schiller. Shakespeare wrote "Othello, the Moor of Venice," which does not, however, contain this quotation. Schiller wrote "Fiesco, or the Genoese Conspiracy," which does.