| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Statute of limitation in Belgium? Agency refuses to pay. Thread poster: SirReaL
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SirReaL 
Germany
Local time: 09:27
English to Russian
+ ...
A Belgian customer is refusing to pay me for translation work done in 2016. Their excuse is that more than 5 years have passed since I delivered the work and they're citing this Belgian regulation:... See more A Belgian customer is refusing to pay me for translation work done in 2016. Their excuse is that more than 5 years have passed since I delivered the work and they're citing this Belgian regulation:
https://economie.fgov.be/nl/themas/consumentenbescherming/opkomen-voor-uw-rechten/uw-aankopen/problemen-met-de-factuur/schadevergoeding/hoe-roept-u-de-verjaring
They're saying that translation services fall under "The fees of lawyers and experts: 5 years" (the 6th item in the "Enkele bijzondere termijnen" bullet list, "erelonen van een advocaat en deskundigen: 5 jaar" in Dutch).
Are translators indeed considered "experts" ("deskundigen") under this regulation?
Does this customer's refusal to pay look legitimate to you? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Out of curiosity | May 7, 2024 |
I know nothing about Belgian law, but just out of curiosity: Why are you demanding payment now? Have you been trying to get the money the entire time? Or did you just realize that they didn't pay?
| | | | SirReaL
Germany
Local time: 09:27
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I forgot to invoice them in 2016 | May 7, 2024 |
...and I'm just now contacting them about it.
P.S. No contracts were signed when we collaborated in 2016, and I had not been made aware of any time limits for invoicing in any of my communications with this agency until this week.
[Edited at 2024-05-07 14:16 GMT]
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 03:27
German to English
| Probably out of luck | May 7, 2024 |
A translation forum is really not the best venue for obtaining legal advice.
However, based on various legal translations I've performed over the years, I understand that in many jurisdictions, if a debt is not pursued over an extended period, that debt is considered forgiven. There may be other citations of EU law in addition to that provided by your former customer. Depending on how much the customer owes you, the cost of legal counsel may be greater than any potential recovery.
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I lived in Belgium for 30 years and, as far as I know, the limitation period for a debt in Belgium varies depending on the type of service, for example it's 6 months for a hotel or restaurant bill, 2 years for medical expenses, 5 years for lawyer or expert fees, 10 years for car repairs, etc.
| | | | | Why should it be any longer than five years? | May 7, 2024 |
Here, it's five years for most debts and it's long enough to stop bothering. A bank I owed something about twenty years ago has been trying to make me pay a debt I'd long forgotten about and had no details to check. They went to a magistrate and had them issue an order to make me pay about 600 dollars (twenty years and 600 dollars total, how small must the debt have been if there were any). I went to a lawyer and he said: they're breaking the law, we'll write a petition and a rationale and they'... See more Here, it's five years for most debts and it's long enough to stop bothering. A bank I owed something about twenty years ago has been trying to make me pay a debt I'd long forgotten about and had no details to check. They went to a magistrate and had them issue an order to make me pay about 600 dollars (twenty years and 600 dollars total, how small must the debt have been if there were any). I went to a lawyer and he said: they're breaking the law, we'll write a petition and a rationale and they'll cancel the order. And so they did: the bank will now have to sue me properly if they wish and lose the case on account of the statute of limitation ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oriol VIP (X)
Spain
Local time: 09:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I am sorry this has happened to you. | May 7, 2024 |
Unfortunately, these things happen and in the translation world there are more common than they should be.
This bugs me specially, a normative to allow not complying with the normative... ah, the modern, twisted world in which thiefs are victims! In my opinion, since they avoided the law for five years (and it's not your fault if you didn't pursue them: it was their obligation to pay in the first place, and you have a job to do, which is not being a debt hunter), you have no obligat... See more Unfortunately, these things happen and in the translation world there are more common than they should be.
This bugs me specially, a normative to allow not complying with the normative... ah, the modern, twisted world in which thiefs are victims! In my opinion, since they avoided the law for five years (and it's not your fault if you didn't pursue them: it was their obligation to pay in the first place, and you have a job to do, which is not being a debt hunter), you have no obligation to make things easier for them. Screw statue of limitation. Use whatever means you have to complicate their life (they did quite worse to you).
So go to all the possible online sites you can find and explain what they did. Show the same mercy they showed you. Let everybody know. Think of it this way: you are saving innocent, poor, lonely outsourcers from being scammed by dishonest people who don't care a damn about the people they hire or send their jobs to. You can probably help some innocent mouths not to starve while being transparent and letting everybody know what happened to you! That's one of the beautiful things about seeking justice -it creates synergies!
[Edited at 2024-05-07 18:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | No idea if this makes a difference... | May 7, 2024 |
the French version being under https://economie.fgov.be/fr/themes/protection-des-consommateurs
and the general tone of the thing seems to me to be about consumers who are being asked to pay, by businesses. The whole section is consumer protection, after all.
Now, I'm not saying that B2B is definitely different in terms of this precise aspect of the law in Belgium, but B2B transactions in general can be and are treated differently in many areas, in many jurisdictions, and the "protection" that is given to consumers is often not there. B2B transactions are, rightly or wrongly, often viewed as between people with equal knowledge, whereas consumers are not expected to know the details of their purchases.
Anyway, if I were you, I would respond by saying that legislation does not apply to B2B dealings, and can they please find some that does
That said, I cannot help but feel that if I were in their shoes, I'd be a bit annoyed you'd left it so long. I'm not sure how many years an "accounts payable" item can linger in the accounts, but there must surely be a point when it is no longer recognised as a potential liability. I wonder if that could be the point when they are no longer obliged to pay it....?
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The time count under a statute of limitations can be restarted at any time if the debtor does something which a court can recognize as an acknowledgement that the debt existed. So, maybe they can be provoked somehow into owning up that there was a job for which they were supposed to pay a specific amount. Again, maybe the Belgian system is different but to me it makes sense. And my guess is that the amount was too small to sue them for: forgetting to invoice for a big amount is surely a sign of ... See more The time count under a statute of limitations can be restarted at any time if the debtor does something which a court can recognize as an acknowledgement that the debt existed. So, maybe they can be provoked somehow into owning up that there was a job for which they were supposed to pay a specific amount. Again, maybe the Belgian system is different but to me it makes sense. And my guess is that the amount was too small to sue them for: forgetting to invoice for a big amount is surely a sign of prosperity ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 09:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
I am Belgian, but not a lawyer. Nevertheless, I found an article from 2020 that states that a company has 10 years to invoice another company (it's 5 years for a company that invoices an individual).
Edit: I read about your resctrictions, though. No idea if a translator is considered to be an "expert" under said regulation. It might be.
[Bijgewerkt op 2024-05-08 06:04 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 09:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Law firm interpretation | May 8, 2024 |
I found this text on the website of a law firm (translated into English by DeepL):
"The legislator failed to define who can be considered an expert in this provision. It is advisable to use the term "expert" in its common meaning in the context of this provision of the law. Therefore, the expert is a person who is called upon because of his special professional or technical knowledge."
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 09:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
It seems to me that this could only be settled in court (the definition of an expert remains vague). Which will cost you a lot of money and with the quite high risk (in my opinion) of losing the case.
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| Consumer aspect? | May 8, 2024 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
I found an article from 2020 that states that a company has 10 years to invoice another company (it's 5 years for a company that invoices an individual).
Edit: I read about your resctrictions, though. No idea if a translator is considered to be an "expert" under said regulation.
The first comment sounds useful (there must be a rule, and there is doubtless a rule everywhere; I confess I have no idea what it is for GB, and I always invoice within a month myself so I've never needed to know).
I still think that list of restrictions and exceptions is for B2C (consumer protection, preventing businesses from presenting private individuals with bills years and years later, the 5-year rule you mention) not B2B, so I'm not sure that particular case of "expert" applies here.
In any case, with it being on the same line legal fees, isn't it likely they mean expert witnesses in the broadest sense as contributors to legal proceedings or legal work in anticipation of same (so including people like loss adjusters)?
(as per your DeepL translation from the law firm in fact - it's all in the general context of legal work, to use as wide a term as possible)
Rather than translators, micro-biologists, chemical engineers, programmers, heart surgeons and all the thousands of other types of professional "experts" that exist in the world?
But I reckon that first idea of a 10-year deadline looks promising, if you could find it again.
[Edited at 2024-05-08 10:27 GMT]
| | | | | I feel like... | May 8, 2024 |
... I would need to know how much is owing before investing any time in this.
| | | | | Statute of limitations in Italy too | May 8, 2024 |
In April I attended a talk by a member of the translation association I belong to here in Italy, and it appears the same law exists in Italy, and the time period is the same if my memory serves me well. So I fear the agency is right.
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Statute of limitation in Belgium? Agency refuses to pay. | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
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