May 25, 2006 14:55
18 yrs ago
8 viewers *
Arabic term

Discussion

Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
Oh, Lord, I found the reference in which I had my 1st encounter with the prayer, it says also "who art". I guess I was sleeping back then.
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
My first encounter with the Our Father or the Lord's Prayer, I heard it "thou art in heaven", I don't remember the reference, any way, I'm convinced with your version now. With "who art" not "who changes".
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
I already said your translation is correct, what I'm saying is يا من تبدل القلوب is mor distant than يا مبدل القلوب
Ala Rabie May 25, 2006:
by the way, it is "who art in heaven", not "thou art in heaven". refer to the nearest bible, or simply to this NPP http://prayer.su/
Ala Rabie May 25, 2006:
'who' simply means 'الذي'. in a backtranslation attempt, 'twould be "إلهي يا من يبدل القلوب، ثبت قلبي"
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
I tell you, with absent persons.
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
, how do you explain” changes”, what do we call this “s” in English?, and when do we use it?
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
And "who art in heaven" is different from "who changes man's heart". The existential "be" or "art" is different from the predicator "change-s". Look, forget about “who”, it is confusing, even for me, how do you explain” changes”, how do we call th
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
Well, I know it is "Our father, thou art in heaven"
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGIF,GGIF:2006-21...
Ala Rabie May 25, 2006:
samir, what are you basing your opinion on? here is a part of maybe the most famous prayers at all:

Matthew 6:9-13, Luke 11:2-4
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
I found a good expression that might help:

O Changer of the hearts, strengthen our hearts upon your Deen.

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:RLiPTXjLavMJ:www.stoppo...
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
Who change's man's heart creates a distance between you and Allah as you shift to 3rd person pronoun (who), which is used to refer to an "absent" person. IT IS USED AND CORRECT AND ALL, but it is not preferable to use 3rd P.P. in a prayer.
Abdelmonem Samir May 25, 2006:
Turner of the hearts is associated with some kinda flower called Verticordia
http://www.amonline.net.au/shop/product.cfm?ItemID=NB107

On the other hand, Changer of the Hearts is a recurrent term for referring to Allah (Google for it).

Proposed translations

+1
5 hrs
Selected

O' ALLAH, he who has the command over our faith, fixate our hearts to your word

O' ALLAH, he who has the command over our faith, fixate our hearts to your word.

the first term "heart" here refers to: faith: الإيمان ما وقر في القللب
this reminds me of the hadeeth:
بما معنى
" القلوب بين اصبعين من أصابع الرحمن يقلبها كيف يشاء"
Peer comment(s):

agree Ala Rabie : wow! just remove "he", replace a few words, and you get the best answer ever. "O Allah, who has Command over our hearts, give me a steadfast heart." / "... keep my heart on your Faith."
25 mins
THAaAaNk You very much Ala :o)
disagree John Colangelo : Actually, in English, He ( with a capital H) is correct. But the text does not say Commander of faith. it says Changer or Turner or He who inverts hearts, make our hearts steadfast on Your path. I have read hadith for four years. Do I name the books?
7 hrs
Dear John, This is the message of the hadith, it is not the literal meaning, I am translating the 'MEANING' which is more accurate! How deep is your knowledge in Hadith?
neutral Abdelmonem Samir : You mean "more natural", never say "more accurate" when you translate by parapharsing., Exactly, Zeinab, It serves the intended meaning well, but without sticking to the exact words of the original (accuracy).
11 hrs
The meaning I provided serves the inteded meaning of the supplication!
agree ghassan al-Alem : Excellent! This is what we could call translation. Just need to capitalize 'He', 'Who' and 'Your', and if you replace fixate with 'fix' or 'fasten', it would be better I reckon.
1 day 7 hrs
THAaAaNk You very much Mr.Ghassan :o) جزاك الله خبراً
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
+1
41 mins

Oh Lord, Changer of the hearts ! Fasten our hearts on Your path !

I am extremely sure of the meaning as it is a prayer I often recite. The expression: Changer of the hearts is an appositional noun of Lord. So it is as if you are calling him by two names: the 1st: Oh Lord! the 2nd: Oh Changer of the hearts. The reason for this second name is that God is the One who determines how you feel, the stae of your heart. Finally the expression ثَبِّتْ is an imperative of ثبَّت، يُثَبِّتُ to fasten. However, in prayer we do not call it an imperative. It is called a petition. The last thing I want to say is that the prayer in itself is very poetic as قَلِّبْ and قُلُوب are both from the root ق ل ب .

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Note added at 42 mins (2006-05-25 15:38:35 GMT)
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And as they are from the same root, they sound alike.

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-05-25 16:28:12 GMT)
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Changer of hearts sounds even better than Changer of the hearts.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Ala Rabie : looks like i included this in my answer :) -- "changer of the hearts" can be interpretted as "he who changes haearts (i.e. who changes his mind) frequently", which is a disaster!
1 hr
In which language ?
agree Yasser El Helw : Sounds good to me!
1 hr
thanks Yasser ...
neutral duraid : O Allah, the turner of hearts, fasten my heart on your path. Check this out: http://dictionary.al-islam.com/arb/Dicts/SelDict.asp?RDF=1&T...
2 hrs
Thanks Duraid.
agree Abdelmonem Samir
3 hrs
Thanks Abdul!!!
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+2
1 hr

O Controller of the hearts! Make my heart steadfast upon Your religion

another option :)

Slaves of Allaah! This supplication which reflects humility and humbleness to Allaah, was the supplication of the best of creation, our Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam. Uttering this supplication is an indication of perfect imitation of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, as ‘Um Salamah, may Allaah be pleased with her, said, ‘The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam used to repeatedly say this supplication, “O Controller of the hearts! Make my heart steadfast upon Your religion” so I asked him, ‘O Prophet of Allaah! Do hearts fluctuate?’ He said, “Yes, all mankind’s hearts are between two of the fingers of Allaah. If Allaah wills He maintains a man’s steadfastness, and if He wills He deviates him” (Ahmad & Tirmithi).

http://www.alminbar.com/khutbaheng/2600.htm
Peer comment(s):

agree Sayed Moustafa talawy : this is the right answer
4 days
Thanks Sayed
agree Gehad Sayed
4606 days
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2 hrs

O Lord, who changes man's heart, give us steadfast hearts

Or if individuality is a must:
"O Lord, who changes man's heart, give me a steadfast heart."

"changer of the hearts" can be interpretted as "he who changes haearts (i.e. who changes his mind) frequently", which is a disaster!

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From the 13th century prayer of Thomas Aquinas.

"Give us, O Lord, steadfast hearts,
which no unworthy thought can drag downward;
unconquered hearts,
which no tribulation can wear out;
upright hearts,
which no unworthy purpose may tempt aside.
Bestow upon us also, O Lord our God,
understanding to know you,
diligence to seek you
wisdom to find you,
and a faithfulness that may finally embrace you"

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Note added at 6 hrs (2006-05-25 21:20:34 GMT)
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"O Lord, who changes man's heart, keep my heart on yuor faith."

Unless you seek abstraction, I recommend Zeinab's answer.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2006-05-25 21:21:21 GMT)
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while considering my comments of course.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2006-05-25 21:23:33 GMT)
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*typo:
"(...)on your Faith."
Peer comment(s):

neutral duraid : Why O Lord and not O Allah, or O God? O Lord is for يا رب and not for اللهم
2 hrs
interesting question, duraid. je baisse les bras :)
neutral Abdelmonem Samir : baisse les bras? does it have to do with " اقطع دراعي " or " never say die ' ?
3 hrs
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2 days 21 hrs

O' Allah, the Turner of the hearts, turn our hearts to Your obedience

Also:
O' Allah, the Turner of the hearts, keep our hearts turned to Your (or Thine) obedience

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