Jun 30, 2016 22:48
7 yrs ago
Spanish term

acto que escape de su intención o voluntad

Spanish to English Law/Patents Real Estate
En un contrato de arrendamiento venezolano:

"El arrendador no se hace responsable por ningún daño y perjuicio que puedan sufrir personas objetos o cosas dentro del inmueble arrendado para el momento de su ocupación, involucrando cualquier **acto que escape de su intención o voluntad**."

¿"involuntary or unintentional act"?

Muchísimas gracias nuevamente.

Discussion

Yvonne Becker (asker) Jul 5, 2016:
Thank you for the discussion
Robert Carter Jul 2, 2016:
@Phil And, re your comment that you "should have considered the possibility of autistic landlords", well isn't that precisely what contract drafting is about, trying to cover all bases?
Robert Carter Jul 2, 2016:
@Phil Your argument that lawyers have a vested interest in making things sound more complicated, whether true or not, is beside the point. The functional purpose of legal document translation is to provide the reader of the target language with a clear, nuanced and accurate account of what the source text says. If the source text itself is complicated, complex, repetitive, boring, pretentious, etc., it's not our job to simplify it, explain what it means, omit repetition, enliven it or colloquialise it.
Apart from anything else, what do we gain by leaving stuff out of a legal translation? We're not the drafter's copy editor.
Are we to presume we know the drafter's mind better than he or she does?
It really comes down to understanding our role in the supply chain. I'm all for plain language in legal documents, but that's a choice for the source text's drafter, not us.
We often find mistakes in a legal text, bits of phrases that might have been left in from a previous draft. Should we leave them out too? There is also a lot of information in legal documents that an "ordinary reader" might not even notice: serial numbers, stamps, signatures, etc., what about that?
Adrian MM. (X) Jul 1, 2016:
emoluments not payable @ Phil G. There is a difference between a tautology and a synonym, plus I have already suggested remuneration payment for that question. You, as a fully qualified accountant, will also know from partnerhip & agency that goodwill compensation (indemnidad de clientela) is also called a goodwill (consideration) payment.
philgoddard Jul 1, 2016:
Robert/Adrian If your argument holds true, and there are no synonyms in legal language, presumably you would translate this as "remuneratory compensation":
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_contracts/6...

I think it's time we stopped being deferential to lawyers and their language. They have a vested interest in making things sound more complicated than they are.

Proposed translations

+2
6 mins
Selected

involuntary or unintentional act

Yes, you are absolutely right, IMO.
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : This is a tautology. I know lawyers like lists of synonyms, but I still believe in good, plain English.
1 hr
It's not a tautology, there is an "or" separating them. In any case, it's just a fair translation of two synonymous terms that are in the original text. Plain English has it's place, but we're translators, not lawyers.
agree Adrian MM. (X) : 'There are no true synonyms in law': the first involuntary act could include drunkenness negating intention or 'automatism': a sleepwalking landlord strangling the tenant's girlfriend: not strictly unintentional.
8 hrs
Thanks, Adrian, nicely explained.
agree AllegroTrans : No tautology here
1 day 16 hrs
Thanks for your input AllegroTrans.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you "
14 mins

action beyond his/their intention and/or will

Another suggestion.
Example sentence:

sequences which flow from it beyond his intention or will, when the cause tends to bring about the delict which followed ...

Jun 28, 2010 - ... to hold any sort of mastery over dreams but even he knew that this was beyond intention or will.

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1 hr

event beyond its control

Even though this is a legal document, I think you need to ask "What would we say in English?" I don't disagree with the two more literal suggestions above, but I think this sounds more natural.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Robert Carter : The question should be "What's my strategy for legal translation?" You're not writing copy for a magazine, it's a legal document. It doesn't matter whether it sounds natural or not, you are required to translate whatever nuances are in the original.
42 mins
Of course it matters whether it sounds natural. And there are no nuances - lawyers just like to pretend that there are.
neutral Adrian MM. (X) : doesn't distinguish e.g. drunkenness, automatism or wanton destruction by an autistic landlord incapable of forming any intention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicidal_sleepwalking//Time to revisit your ES & EN criminal law notes.
6 hrs
Oh yes, silly me, I should have considered the possibility of autistic landlords.
neutral AllegroTrans : automatism has been famously held to include actions induced by such events as a swarm of bees making it impossible for a motorist to drive a car; an unintentional act could be caused by human inadvertancy: can you see the difference?
1 day 15 hrs
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