Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

abandoned takeoff

English answer:

could not stop (abandon/abort) the takeoff

Added to glossary by Alexandre Reis
Oct 30, 2017 23:20
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

abandoned takeoff

Non-PRO English Tech/Engineering Engineering (general)
The instructor was faced with a possible bird strike and engine failure in a position from which neither an abandoned takeoff nor an ejection could have been accomplished safely.

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=fktpCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT176&d...
Change log

Nov 6, 2017 17:07: acetran changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Daryo, Yvonne Gallagher

Non-PRO (3): Edith Kelly, Henk Sanderson, acetran

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Discussion

Daryo Oct 31, 2017:
the problem in understanding this when you take the trouble to read the ST is that if you never trained to be pilot you would assume that the take-off ends the moment the airplane is off the ground while in fact the take-off also includes the initial climb to about 15 m above ground. So if you don't know that "aborting the take-off" not on the runway but when the airplane is already airborne would be confusing ...

Yvonne Gallagher Oct 31, 2017:
Yes, the plane is barely airborne so it definitely wouldn't have been possible to eject safely as no time to deploy parachutes to break the fall...so it really wasn't an alternative to re-landing
Herbmione Granger Oct 31, 2017:
ejection My original confusion was with the notion of ejection during takeoff.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/t-6...

It makes more sense to me if the pilot was in a later stage of the takeoff.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=738601

Please excuse my inconsistent usage of tenses :)

This is just following my interpretation, and I have no plane piloting experience.
Herbmione Granger Oct 31, 2017:
tenses Yes, it is a tense problem. I was thinking of a good description of the event. Long story, from my reading of the text:
While ascending, the instructor saw the birds and was faced with a dilemma: abandon takeoff and crash land or continue with takeoff and hit the birds. If he had chosen the potential bird strike, it would likely have led to engine failure and dire consequences, since it would have been unsafe to eject himself and his student from the plane at that altitude. Therefore, he abandoned takeoff, the safer but still risky option.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 31, 2017:
The problem with understanding this for non-natives as I see it is the use of the Third Conditional occurrence in terms of hitting (not hitting) the birds. And it's certainly not non-Pro. I know from teaching EFL how difficult the concept of the Third Conditional is.

I admit I hadn't checked the link with all the context when making my first comments but the meaning of the phrase remains as is.
I already added a note simplifying the actual sequence of events and the WHAT IF they HAD hit the birds and had NOT been able to abort the (complete) takeoff safely. It could be argued that once airborne (as is the case here) they HAD actually taken off, https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/takeoff
so they re-landed rather than had an aborted takeoff.
But anyway, the phrase as it stands in the sentence means they could not abort (or COMPLETE might be preferable) the takeoff safely from that particular Third Conditional position of hitting the birds and having engine failure (IF that HAD happened/BUT it did NOT!).
Herbmione Granger Oct 31, 2017:
incident I'm not sure that the incident was described well. It's not clear why 'ejection' was mentioned in the official report.

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1985/1985 - 21...
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=68289
http://www.ukserials.com/losses-1984.htm
The pilot noticed a flock of birds during take off from Cranwell, Lincs. He elected to land rather than fly through them. The heavy landing burst both main tyres and collapsed the nose wheel leg. Allocated to 8826M at Church Fenton

Responses

+6
8 mins
Selected

could not stop (abandon/abort) the takeoff

as it was not safe to do so, so they had to continue (with the takeoff procedure ) I assume

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Note added at 10 mins (2017-10-30 23:31:38 GMT)
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they were probably already going too fast down the runway when they saw a birdstrike might occur

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Note added at 13 hrs (2017-10-31 12:53:00 GMT)
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This is at accident report stage so I think the mix of tenses might be confusing

In fact, the takeoff was aborted just after becoming airborne in order to avoid a flock of birds as they didn't have enough ascent to avoid them, so they tried to land again but hit the runway heavily.
However, IF they had struck the birds, engine failure would have occurred and, from that position, an aborted takeoof would not have been accomplished safely
Peer comment(s):

agree airmailrpl : could not abort the takeoff
2 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
3 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Edith Kelly
4 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Jack Doughty
8 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree jccantrell
14 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Ashutosh Mitra
1 day 4 hrs
neutral Daryo : In fact in this ST they were already off the ground, but still above the runway.
7 days
meaning of the phrase asked remains the same regardless.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

Rejected takeoff

Rejected takeoff

In aviation terminology, a rejected takeoff (RTO) or aborted takeoff is the situation in which it is decided to abort the takeoff of an airplane. There can be many reasons for deciding to perform a rejected takeoff, but they are usually due to suspected or actual technical failures, like an engine failure such as a compressor stall occurring during the takeoff run.

A rejected takeoff is normally performed only if the aircraft's speed is below the takeoff decision speed known as V1, which for larger multi-engine airplanes is calculated before each flight. Below the decision speed the airplane should be able to stop safely before the end of the runway. Above the decision speed, the airplane may overshoot the runway if the takeoff is aborted and therefore a rejected takeoff is normally not performed above this speed, unless there is reason to doubt the airplane's ability to fly. If a serious failure occurs or is suspected above V1 but the airplane's ability to fly is not in doubt, the takeoff is continued despite the (suspected) failure and the airplane will attempt to land again as soon as possible.

....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejected_takeoff

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Note added at 18 hrs (2017-10-31 17:42:07 GMT)
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Take off - distinct stages

Stages of take-off

1. Ground run. Aircraft accelerates horizontally up to rotation speed,
VR. Altitude of aircraft constant ⇒ CL, CD constant.

2. Rotation. Aircraft nose is pitched up so at end of this phase lift
exceeds the weight and hence the aircraft accelerates vertically.

3. Flare. Flight path angle is changed so that it matches climb angle
(NB: flight path angle and pitch angle are not the same. Flight path
angle is angle cg moves relative to ground)

[*** AND ALSO part of the take-off ***]

4. Initial Climb. Aircraft climbs at steady angle to screen height
(hs ∼ 15m) CL, CD constant.

https://www.le.ac.uk/eg/mct6/teaching/aero_lect8_2016.pdf
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Herbmione Granger
5 hrs
Thanks!
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