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May 19 13:51
1 mo ago
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Dutch term

artikel 311bis

Dutch to English Law/Patents Law (general) in a Belgian (Flemish) text
Hi everyone, can someone help me settle this once and for all?

JurLex has:
artikel 3 bis = Article 3a

Van Dale has:
nummer 3 en nummer 3 bis = No 3 and No 3b
artikel 65 bis = section 65b

-------------------

Dutch: ‘artikel 311bis’
English: ‘Article 311a’ or ‘Article 311b’???


(my actual context: ‘bedoeld in artikel 311bis van het Oud Burgerlijk Wetboek;‘)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 article 311 bis
4 (Lisbon Treaty on the EU) Article vs. (Domestic statute) section / § 311a
4 Article 311 a
Change log

May 19, 2024 15:32: Adrian MM. changed "Language pair" from "Dutch to English" to "Flemish to English"

May 20, 2024 17:17: philgoddard changed "Language pair" from "Flemish to English" to "Dutch to English" , "Field (write-in)" from "-" to "(none)"

May 20, 2024 18:57: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "in a Belgian (Flemish) text"

Discussion

Michael Beijer (asker) May 28:
I am leaning towards leaving it in see e.g.:

https://www.google.com/search?q="Article 94ter" Welfare Act ...

I also agree that leaving it in makes it easier for people to find the relevant law.
Michael Beijer (asker) May 26:
To bis or not to bis
So, it seems the matter has still not been settled. It depends on which style guide (or personal whim) you decide to follow. For example:

• EU English Style Guide: Article 311a
• Drafting guidance* (gov.uk): Article 311A
• Parry/Grant Encyclopaedic Dict. of Int Law: Article 311bis
• Phil (and others): Article 311 bis

* by the Drafting Techniques Group of the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/drafting-bills-fo... )

----

There are also two other matters:

(1) Whether you wish to call these "Artikelen" "Sections" (as per Adrien's suggestion) or "Articles".
(2) Whether to capitalise Article/article or Section/section.
Michael Beijer (asker) May 20:
re the questions being changed to Flemish Weirdly, I noticed that if you change the language of a question from, e.g., "flemish-to-english" to "dutch-to-english", both versions continue to exist. For example, the current question exists in two parallel universes, as:

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/flemish-to-english/law-general/71...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch-to-english/law-general/7185...

I'm not sure what to make of that. I always tend to ask everything in dutch-to-english, and if it's Belgian Dutch, specify this in my question (unless I forget to). That way, future searchers only have to remember to search in dutch-to-english. I'm not sure if this is the best way to go about this though and have always wondered whether I should be using both, as appropriate. What do you guys think?
Michael Beijer (asker) May 20:
whether numbering convention exists in English on the debate as to whether this system of inserting stuff exists in English, I just found the following. Not quite the same context but fairly similar.

"3.8.3 Where ordinal numbers are used for a list of conditions (first, second, third etc) it is not obvious what to call a new condition that needs to be inserted into the middle of the list in future. The use of cardinal numbers (1, 2, 3 etc) or letters (A, B, C etc) is preferable. Future conditions can then be added as 1A, 2A, 3A or AA, BA, CA etc."

(https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/drafting-bills-fo... )
philgoddard May 20:
Mystery solved In his endless lawyerly quest to make life more complicated than it really is, Adrian has changed the language from Dutch to Flemish so that no one will ever find it in the glossary.
I'm changing it back.
philgoddard May 20:
Why am I seeing this question? I didn't even know there was a 'Flemish' to English language pair, and I didn't sign up for it.
Kirsten Bodart May 19:
When citing legal artcicles always always retain the numbering, however strange it may be. How else is anyone reading this in another language going to be able to look up the article in question? The only thing you could possibly change is article into section, but that depends on preference, yours, the proofer's and the client as well as target language (I gather UK prefer Section, whereas US prefer Article).

By the way, I think there are also small words like this for second, third, fourth etc. I believe it is because there was an original article at some point that was added to, but they didn't want to mess up the original numbering. Though a real lawyer-linguist could maybe elaborate on that.
James Duncan May 19:
Parry/Grant Encyclopaedic Dict. of Int Law bis A Latin adverb used in treaty practice to connote a second article with the same number
as an existing article, employed in drafting to indicate another version of the text of an
article and in fi nal instruments to indicate further a new provision to an existing article. The
terms ter and quarter connote the third and fourth such article.
Amin Zanganeh Inaloo May 19:
If I were you, I would keep it in the translation as "Article 311bis" to ensure it remains identifiable.
Amin Zanganeh Inaloo May 19:
The term "bis" in legal and administrative documents typically indicates a secondary or additional item that follows the original. In English, it is often translated as "a" or "b" depending on the context, but it is more commonly seen as "b" to maintain the sequence.
Michael Beijer (asker) May 19:
or retain "bis"? Or, retain the Latin word "bis" in the English translation, as it is part of the specific article number, since "bis" is often used in legal contexts to denote an article that was added or amended after the original numbering?

Proposed translations

+3
6 mins
Selected

article 311 bis

Much to my surprise, we've never had this in Dutch to English, though it's been discussed to death in French to English. I hope you won't mind my giving a reference in another language pair!

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/5872...

It's confusing to translate this as 'a' or 'b' just because this numbering convention doesn't exist in English.
Note from asker:
Thanks Phil, that's really helpful!
Peer comment(s):
agree Amin Zanganeh Inaloo
9 mins
agree James Duncan
16 mins
agree Kirsten Bodart : Of course
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr

(Lisbon Treaty on the EU) Article vs. (Domestic statute) section / § 311a

Reformulate the question > unless the enactment in question is a Constitution, EEC /EU Treaty or an Article of (BrE) Company Association (alt. Memorandum Clause) or (AmE) Incorporation, article ought to be omitted from clause headers by drafting convention or translated as section.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2024-05-19 15:49:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oud Burgerlijk Wetboek = a domestic Belgian enactment of the Old Civil Code, so section 311a.
Example sentence:

Treaty of Lisbon amending the Treaty on European Union / Article 311 shall be repealed. A new Article 311a shall be inserted, with the wording of Article 299(2), first subparagraph, and Article 299(3) to (6); the text shall be amended as follows:

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/flemish-to-english/bus-financial/329912-machtinging-aan-de-koning-in-artikel-2-1º-j-van-de-wet.html

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/flemish-to-english/bus-financial/329931-enerzijds-in-artikel-2bis-van-het-kb-van-5-augustus.html

Note from asker:
Hi Adrian, I agree that section is preferable, but everywhere I look online "article" is used, so I am more inclined to write "article 311 bis of the former Belgian Civil Code" than "section 311 bis of the former Belgian Civil Code".
Something went wrong...
1 day 3 hrs

Article 311 a

Since there will always be debate on this, I tend to select one style guide and stick to it. I use the EU English Style Guide (which you can download):
A reference such as Article 198a is not to a subdivision but to an article subsequently inserted after Article 198. In English, the letter is always in lower case and closed up to the number. In some languages, such articles are numbered Article 1 bis (ter, quater, quinquies, etc.)1. When translating, use the English form. (For national legislation, see 23.15.)

Article 1 bis
Article 1 ter
Article 1 quater
Article 1 quinquies
Article 1 sexties
Article 1 septies
Article 1 octies
Article 1 nonies
Article 1 decies
Article 1 undecies
Article 1 duodecies
Article 1 terdecies
Article 1 quaterdecies
Article 1 quindecies
Article 1 sex[ties]decies
Article 1 septdecies
Article 1 octodecies
Article 1 novodecies
Article 1 vicies
Article 1 unvicies
Article 1 duovicies
Article 1 tervicies
Article 1 quatervicies
Article 1 quinvicies
Article 1 sex[ties]vicies
Article 1 septvicies
are
Article 1a
Article 1b
Article 1c
Article 1d
Article 1e
Article 1f
Article 1g
Article 1h
Article 1i
Article 1j
Article 1k
Article 1l
Article 1m
Article 1n
Article 1o
Article 1p
Article 1q
Article 1r
Article 1s
Article 1t
Article 1u
Article 1v
Article 1w
Article 1x
Article 1y
Article 1z
Something went wrong...
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