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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

mossen

English translation:

" Mossen " (monseigneur) or father

Added to glossary by Parrot
Jul 30, 2008 18:24
15 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

mossen

Spanish to English Other History Old Valencian context (Renaissance MS)
El abad "mossen Bernat Fenollar" nació en Penaguila, cerca de Alcoy, en la provincia de Alicante.

I understand this is something similar to "monseigneur" in the old sense (not referring to bishops), but need confirmation and would be grateful for any equivalent in English.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 " Mossen " (Monseigneur)
5 +1 monsignor

Discussion

Parrot (asker) Jul 30, 2008:
Thanks for the lead, psicutrinius very helpful!
Parrot (asker) Jul 30, 2008:
Hi Patricia I thought at first that it was a Jewish name variant (Moshe), there having been many Jews in Valencia. However, too many priests were being called "mossen" (lowercase).
In France during this period, just being noble or the equivalent of "hidalgo" made you "monseigneur" (milord).
My current problem is that there is also a politician and poet called "mossen Narcis Vinyoles" who doesn't seem to have taken holy orders.
psicutrinius Jul 30, 2008:
sorry for the error. The stress is the other way (mossèn). This is from enciclopedia catalana:
Castellà: padre, mosén

Anglès: father

Francès: abbé

Alemany: Pfarrer
psicutrinius Jul 30, 2008:
"Mossén" is catalan for "padre". This means that (since at the time an abbot needed not be a full priest), Bernat Fenollar was an abbot and, BESIDES, a fully ordained priest (and most probably, before his being appointed an abbot.
Patricia Rosas Jul 30, 2008:
Isn't Mossen part of his name? I find your text already translated into English (search on "abbot Mossen" and you'll get several hits. Searching on "abad mossen" I get hits that suggest it is a first name.

Proposed translations

+3
6 mins
Selected

" Mossen " (Monseigneur)

Histoire et légende de Comberouger - Son histoire- Translate
L'histoire de la commune de Comberouger, village du tarn et garonne (82) ... des nouvelles des troupes de " Mossen " (Monseigneur) qui défend ses villages. ...
www.cdg82.fr/comberouger/pageLibre00010012.html - Cached


International Autograph Auctions
... document is addressed to Mossen Antonio Celdran, the official paymaster ... folio, Imperial Army of Avagon, 26th July 1811, to 'Monseigneur', in French. ...
www.autographauctions.co.uk/foreignroyaltynapandfamily.htm - 80k
Peer comment(s):
agree Andres Pacheco
2 mins
agree Rosa Elena Lozano Arton
3 mins
agree Egmont
38 mins
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone who participated. In the end, I explained this was "father" the first time in use and kept the original title."
+1
9 mins

monsignor

It's Catalan. It was previously used for knights, honored bourgeois and citizens; now it's used in reference to priests. It should be spelled mossèn.
Reference:

http://ec.grec.net/lexicx.jsp?GECART=0091793

Peer comment(s):
agree Bubo Coroman (X)
6 mins
Something went wrong...
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