| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | How to lose jobs Thread poster: Robert Rietvelt
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 00:03
Greek to English
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| Try to find a career or gvt job | Mar 10, 2021 |
Robert, you look young. No reason to try so hard in this online plantation. You still have time to find a great career.
| | | | Robert Rietvelt 
Local time: 07:03
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you very much for the compliment | Mar 10, 2021 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Robert, you look young. No reason to try so hard in this online plantation. You still have time to find a great career.
[Edited at 2021-03-10 14:15 GMT]
For your information, my profile photo was taken about 4 years ago, when I applied for a new passport. I was 58 then, so do your maths.
[Edited at 2021-03-10 14:18 GMT]
Nowadays I look a bit different: 
[Edited at 2021-03-10 15:10 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-10 15:52 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-10 18:30 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-10 23:26 GMT]
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 00:03
English to Russian
+ ...
| We ran a full circle | Mar 10, 2021 |
For ages, translation used to be a rare and elite occupation. We all know what happened in the last 20 years or so, no need to explain or list it.
Today chickens are coming home to roost and pretty soon only those who can stay in the elite niche will be making serious money in this profession. Globalization and mass production killed many things on this planet and drove down or eliminated numerous jobs and former money-makers. Translation is just another tiny part of it, and we are ... See more For ages, translation used to be a rare and elite occupation. We all know what happened in the last 20 years or so, no need to explain or list it.
Today chickens are coming home to roost and pretty soon only those who can stay in the elite niche will be making serious money in this profession. Globalization and mass production killed many things on this planet and drove down or eliminated numerous jobs and former money-makers. Translation is just another tiny part of it, and we are no exception.
Please spare me the pathos ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:03
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I was 58 then, so do your maths.
You look younger in that pic than I did when I was 38! I suppose this means I can no longer mentally refer to you as "that whippersnapper Rietvelt". Drat.
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Robert Rietvelt
Local time: 07:03
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
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TOPIC STARTER
Dan Lucas wrote:
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I was 58 then, so do your maths.
You look younger in that pic than I did when I was 38! I suppose this means I can no longer mentally refer to you as "that whippersnapper Rietvelt". Drat.
Please have another look at my post.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 01:03
Spanish to English
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| The heart of the matter | Mar 10, 2021 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
No reason to try so hard in this online plantation. You still have time to find a great career.
This really gets to the heart of the matter. Is it really possible, in good conscience, to recommend freelance translation as a career path to anyone, of any age?
I sympathize with some of the comments offered in this thread (and I used to offer such comments myself). But the problem with "standing your ground," as Thayenga points out, is that agencies will sooner or later find someone cheaper to do the job. In other words, and at least for those of us working in "the common pairs," we are very much living in a buyer's market. This is true to such an extent that it seems that we can no longer console ourselves with the old conventional wisdom that translators willing to work for cheaper rates typically produce inferior work.
It is all very disheartening. For many freelancers, the current state of affairs is certainly well beyond any remedies that might be offered by friendly pointers from well-meaning colleagues or the pontificating in the latest (paid) webinars....
And this is why I am so glad that I no longer depend exclusively on freelance work for my income. Otherwise, I would be faced with the unpalatable choice between interminable drudgery to keep my head above water and proudly standing my ground while being reduced to stultifying idleness and impoverishment.
[Edited at 2021-03-10 19:44 GMT]
| | | | | Seen that too | Mar 10, 2021 |
Jocelin Meunier wrote:
Might not be the best course of action, but I simply "blacklist" agencies that don't accept a reasonable rate. A few years ago, a subtitling company with decent to good rates (that's rare) decided to cut rates so much that they became the second lowest I had ever seen. I stopped doing any work for them ever since and tried to find better client.
You could say that it's not really a solution, but there's not much more we can do (and not much is done to change it).
I almost never work with agencies. There are the good, the bad and the ugly. I too have seen what you describe: an agency with whom I worked occasionally back in the late 1990's contacting me again some 20 years later, with an offer 20% down on the rate from more than 20 years ago.
EDIT : Seeing previous posts after having posted this one, I realize that I had similar thought, about how outrageous it is to imagine that with more than 25 years' experience I should start accepting stupid reductions in my rate.
[Edited at 2021-03-10 15:57 GMT]
| | | | | what's disconcerting... | Mar 10, 2021 |
is the general decline of quality, which is inevitable when the rates go down. Competition amongst agencies doesn't help. When you compete on price, you promote the decline of the industry and language in general. When you work too fast to be able to make enough money to survive, quality goes out of the window. Also, if people think they are not paid enough, unconsciously, they will put less effort in their work. I see it all the time. If to all this we add the total absence of barriers to the p... See more is the general decline of quality, which is inevitable when the rates go down. Competition amongst agencies doesn't help. When you compete on price, you promote the decline of the industry and language in general. When you work too fast to be able to make enough money to survive, quality goes out of the window. Also, if people think they are not paid enough, unconsciously, they will put less effort in their work. I see it all the time. If to all this we add the total absence of barriers to the profession, we have a very depressing state of affairs. I try and educate my clients. I say "with this rate, you will never have quality, even if people tell you that, it's a lie". And if they do, it won't be sustainable. But they don't care. Agencies are doing a disservice to their client and to us, by lowering their standards to compete. We float in a sea of rubbish translations. And there is very little we can do about it. ▲ Collapse
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
I almost never work with agencies. There are the good, the bad and the ugly.
Yeah, more bad and ugly than good. But agencies seem to have most of the workflow in translation.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 10:03
English to Arabic
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| Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 09:03
Member
English to Turkish
| I'm still confused | Mar 10, 2021 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
The reasons you quote. Also, taking on as much work as they humanely can, turning it around very quickly. The result? Very bad quality, but nobody seems to care anymore. We will end up delivering mediocre quality on the long run, since there is no other way around it to be able to earn a decent income and survive. But clients and agencies seem to be blind to this. As long as they are saving money... when they ask me why I'm not accepting a certain rate, I usually reply that I can't guarantee sufficient quality and whoever is saying that, is a liar... [Edited at 2021-03-10 12:53 GMT]
I understand and share your point about churning out large volume and producing sh*t quality. In my book anybody translating 3500 words a day will somehow have to compromise on quality and proper research.
But I still can't see how a 'bottom feeder' working for 0.05 EUR per word can survive in a place like Amsterdam or Hamburg. They will have to work every waking hour to pay for their rent and bills (and imagine if they're married with children?) and are liable to produce crap quality with too many mistakes, and eventually those agencies asking for 'best rates' will suffer because of their shoddy work, and they won't work with them anymore. What happens when they run out of agencies like these to work for? Will they raise their rates and up their game then? And let's not forget the majority of such agencies are bad payers.
Surely, the situation in those countries shouldn't be as dire as it's made out to be here.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:03
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Not the main breadwinner? | Mar 10, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
But I still can't see how a 'bottom feeder' working for 0.05 EUR per word can survive in a place like Amsterdam or Hamburg.
I suspect a lot of these people are students or stay-at-home mums/dads. I know several people like this. In fact, I would say that a very hefty fraction of the translators working in my pair in the UK are not the sole earners in their households, or are effectively part-timers.
As it happens most of the ones I know seem to be good translators, and one in particular is probably as capable in her area of specialisation as I am in mine. But she's not the main breadwinner. That takes a lot of pressure off you, and also makes it easier to justify accepting low rates.
I think her rates are too low, but I also think that if she wanted to charge higher rates she'd probably also have to be more available for her clients, and given that she has a young family that's not likely to happen. If she only gets limited flows, then maybe she and others like her feel less able to negotiate better rates, and that causes price pressure at the margin.
Maybe this explains it. I don't know.
Regards,
Dan
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| In translation like in any business affair, you get what you pay for | Mar 10, 2021 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Agencies are doing a disservice to their client and to us, by lowering their standards to compete. We float in a sea of rubbish translations. And there is very little we can do about it.
I agree. Agencies and clients must be aware that they will get the job they will pay for. Once and for all.
When you pay peanuts, don’t expect to get anything else but... peanuts. Indeed.
[Modifié le 2021-03-11 06:32 GMT]
| | | | Robert Rietvelt
Local time: 07:03
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for all your input | Mar 10, 2021 |
Thank you for all your comments.
I know we are living in difficult times, but when I see all those agencies that are investing in acquisitions of competitors and in new systems, moving to better locations, hiring more personal, etc, etc, I am wondering who is paying for all of these so called "overhead costs"? That money has to come from somewhere.
Let me put it this way. Does an employee of an agency has to turn in salary and all the benefits that come with the job? I... See more Thank you for all your comments.
I know we are living in difficult times, but when I see all those agencies that are investing in acquisitions of competitors and in new systems, moving to better locations, hiring more personal, etc, etc, I am wondering who is paying for all of these so called "overhead costs"? That money has to come from somewhere.
Let me put it this way. Does an employee of an agency has to turn in salary and all the benefits that come with the job? I know by fact they don't. Furthermore, the agency will maintain its level of income, and we (and who knows who else) are paying the price for it. Which in it self is strange, because are we not their greatest assets?
I don't think this is a good trend. More and more so called 'colleagues' will take over our jobs, quality will go down the drain and we.......????
It indeed seems that money is more important than quality (unfortunately). What can we do about it? Probably nothing.
One thing I read I absolutely disagree with, is delivering low quality translations, because you are being paid a low rate. It is still up to you to accept a job or not. If you accept it, give it your best, whatever the price, or don't accept it at all. We are professionals, please keep that in mind.
[Edited at 2021-03-10 23:26 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-11 01:07 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-11 01:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Rietvelt
Local time: 07:03
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Baran Keki wrote:
I'm having hard time understanding how a person (the so called 'bottom feeder') working for 0.05 to 0.07 EUR per word could make ends meet in a country like the Netherlands
Answer: NOT!
I live in Amsterdam, born and raised here. I managed to "settle" in this city because of privileges of birth, but for newcomers it is almost impossible to find an affordable accommodation, let stand alone to built up a life, unless they come with a bag of money.
So, on the rates you mention, 0.05 to 0.07 EUR per word alone you normally will not survive, unless you work 24 hours a day! OK, maybe a bit exaggerated, but you have to work a lot, and hoping there is enough work.
Everything is possible, but at the end it will be a low budget life. I don't see how anyone can enjoy the city at its full extend on these earnings. That is why coming to Amsterdan, or any other big city for that matter, makes no sense when all you do is spending most your time on working. But if that is what you want, be my guest.
But for really built up a life, you'll need the financial support of a third party, like a well earning parter or a fund, or else, Amsterdam on 0.05 to 0.07 EUR per word is a meagre existence.
That is why I started this thread, even I can't survive on 0.05 to 0.07 EUR per word, being 'Amsterdammer' or not.
[Edited at 2021-03-11 01:10 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-03-11 01:11 GMT]
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