| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | CAT software for start-up - advice needed Thread poster: Luke Mersh
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| Intuitive tools | Mar 4, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
I just use macros in MSWord for that. Surprising so few people use macros.
Probably because macros are not as intuitive as a well-designed software - give me any CAT and I will be using the basics within a couple of minutes. I wouldn't oppose learning to use macros, though, if I had the time.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
I just use macros in MSWord for that. Surprising so few people use macros.
Probably because macros are not as intuitive as a well-designed software - give me any CAT and I will be using the basics within a couple of minutes. I wouldn't oppose learning to use macros, though, if I had the time.
It takes about 2 seconds to create a macro to find/replace a group of words. If you start the macro thing and keep going, in about 5 minutes of copy/pasting you can create a single macro that will find/replace 100 words or phrases in less than the blink of an eye. You then save the macro and use it on other projects. And you pay nothing. It's included in MSWord. What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
For future projects you just run whatever macros you want to use, and you get instantaneous, consistent translation.
[Edited at 2015-03-04 15:17 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag 
Germany
Local time: 13:10
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
I'm sure that's not a serious question. Of course, there's quite a lot, but by now, we all know you're not interested (and that's fine!) ...
That aside, macros can certainly be a very powerful tool for translators.
[Bearbeitet am 2015-03-04 15:41 GMT]
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 13:10
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
| What does a CAT tool that Word doesn't? | Mar 4, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
Gosh, where do I start?
A bicycle will get you from A to B, but with a car I'll get there faster (also, I won't get wet if it rains).
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| If Tom doesn't, maybe others want to know | Mar 4, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
It automatically fills out all phrases I have translated before (including stuff I translated a year ago in different files/for different clients), changes numbers automatically to their German equivalents and takes care of all the formatting of many, many different file formats. On a good day, more than 50 % of my work is already done just by uploading the file and opening a TM.
While working, I can search for single words or word groups and look at matches in a different window without to have to jump within the text I am working on - I can search at the same time in the current text and many texts I or others have translated before, plus within glossaries I made myself or got from others - with a single click. I also can align other materials to create TMs (there are lots of resources especially in technical translation). How would a macro do all of that?
CAT tools together with speech recognition guarantee a good income for me without having to sacrifice family time or hobbies. Even today, with all the problems I had, I managed to finish my work in time. I doubt I could finish it as fast just using Word. 4000 words per day (of good quality!) are no big issue.
I do realize that the translation business is extremely diversified. I am sure there are many clients and many translators that will do just fine without many of these features and tools, and that is wonderful.
But I sometimes get the impression that None-CAT-toolers think that all CAT tool users working for agencies are part of a hoard of mindless zombie slaves who work day and night for nothing but peanuts (or brains, in the case of zombies). That is not so. With sound knowledge of ones' specialty fields, good negotiation skills and the right technology, used wisely, translation is a breeze!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
It automatically fills out all phrases I have translated before (including stuff I translated a year ago in different files/for different clients), changes numbers automatically to their German equivalents and takes care of all the formatting of many, many different file formats. On a good day, more than 50 % of my work is already done just by uploading the file and opening a TM.
While working, I can search for single words or word groups and look at matches in a different window without to have to jump within the text I am working on - I can search at the same time in the current text and many texts I or others have translated before, plus within glossaries I made myself or got from others - with a single click. I also can align other materials to create TMs (there are lots of resources especially in technical translation). How would a macro do all of that?
I already do all of that with macros. All of it. That's why, as Robert says, I'm not interested in CATS. When I was starting as a translator I looked into a few and because I'm always interested in how stuff works, I began to think about how CATs do what they do, which is obviously based on searching for pieces of text and replacing them with something else.
Then I thought: but that's what I already do with macros! So I thought about it some more, and came to the conclusion that I don't need CATs.
If my comments have got anybody interested in opening up the "macros" tool of the MS Word application, I'll be happy.
[Edited at 2015-03-04 17:08 GMT]
| | | | | Really and for sure? o_O | Mar 4, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
All of it.
I find it hard to believe, but it sounds great. Have you ever thought about creating a macro course for translators (and maybe destroy the CAT tool industry in the process)? 
I would be one of the first persons to sign up for it! Not because I want to give up my CATs, but because I am really curious how your process works - and because I would have to switch to macro use after the CAT industry is down...
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Highly unlikely | Mar 4, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
It automatically fills out all phrases I have translated before (including stuff I translated a year ago in different files/for different clients), changes numbers automatically to their German equivalents and takes care of all the formatting of many, many different file formats. On a good day, more than 50 % of my work is already done just by uploading the file and opening a TM.
While working, I can search for single words or word groups and look at matches in a different window without to have to jump within the text I am working on - I can search at the same time in the current text and many texts I or others have translated before, plus within glossaries I made myself or got from others - with a single click. I also can align other materials to create TMs (there are lots of resources especially in technical translation). How would a macro do all of that?
I already do all of that with macros. All of it. That's why, as Robert says, I'm not interested in CATS. When I was starting as a translator I looked into a few and because I'm always interested in how stuff works, I began to think about how CATs do what they do, which is obviously based on searching for pieces of text and replacing them with something else.
Then I thought: but that's what I already do with macros! So I thought about it some more, and came to the conclusion that I don't need CATs.
If my comments have got anybody interested in opening up the "macros" tool of the MS Word application, I'll be happy. [Edited at 2015-03-04 17:08 GMT]
Sorry Tom, but that's just patently not true.
Can you tell us a little more about your macros? What do they do exactly? Did you write them yourself? Where did you get them? etc.
Michael
[Edited at 2015-03-04 17:40 GMT]
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Think patchwork | Mar 4, 2015 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
Can you tell us a little more about your macros? What do they do exactly? Did you write them yourself? Where did you get them? etc.
I disagree with Tom on CAT, but it's possible to achieve remarkable things with VBA, a good grasp of Word's object model and a lurid imagination.
In Tom's case I envisage a large number of little macros each written for a specific task, each needing manual adjustment, all of it glued together by other little workflow steps like shuttling files around in different formats, saving this, exporting that, reading in this text file - that sort of thing.
It would no doubt require hundreds if not thousands of hours to gradually build such an ecosystem, it would be hell to maintain and I should think it would be utterly impractical for anybody - other than Tom himself - to use, but such a system would probably do most of what a modern application does. Think of it as a bespoke CAT tool made out of the software equivalent of rubber bands and matchsticks.
Hey, if it works for him, that's good enough.
Dan
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I too can bake my own bread. So far I've been buying it and I think I´ll keep it that way.
Now, seriously. If a piece of software on which "expert folks" spent DECADES gives you hard time (and we all know it does), how on earth can you rely on macros you just "crafted" on your own?
And what if your customer shoots a package, just for the sake of it? Will you turn down an interesting project because you decided to not have a CAT tool?
Now, I wish I knew mor... See more I too can bake my own bread. So far I've been buying it and I think I´ll keep it that way.
Now, seriously. If a piece of software on which "expert folks" spent DECADES gives you hard time (and we all know it does), how on earth can you rely on macros you just "crafted" on your own?
And what if your customer shoots a package, just for the sake of it? Will you turn down an interesting project because you decided to not have a CAT tool?
Now, I wish I knew more about Macros. I just do not see how they can replace a CAT tool. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sorry if I am mistaken | Mar 4, 2015 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
I too can bake my own bread. So far I've been buying it and I think I´ll keep it that way.
Now, seriously. If a piece of software on which "expert folks" spent DECADES gives you hard time (and we all know it does), how on earth can you rely on macros you just "crafted" on your own?
And what if your customer shoots a package, just for the sake of it? Will you turn down an interesting project because you decided to not have a CAT tool?
Now, I wish I knew more about Macros. I just do not see how they can replace a CAT tool.
But I thought that Wordfast (Classic now), my favorite CAT-tool since 12 years, was just a huge (and very efficient) Word macro? And that some other CAT-Tools are too?
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Macrocytic anemia | Mar 4, 2015 |
houtberg wrote:
Merab Dekano wrote:
I too can bake my own bread. So far I've been buying it and I think I´ll keep it that way.
Now, seriously. If a piece of software on which "expert folks" spent DECADES gives you hard time (and we all know it does), how on earth can you rely on macros you just "crafted" on your own?
And what if your customer shoots a package, just for the sake of it? Will you turn down an interesting project because you decided to not have a CAT tool?
Now, I wish I knew more about Macros. I just do not see how they can replace a CAT tool.
But I thought that Wordfast (Classic now), my favorite CAT-tool since 12 years, was just a huge (and very efficient) Word macro? And that some other CAT-Tools are too?
Yeah, sure, Wf Classic is a giant macro, but that's not what Tom was talking about
Michael
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member
Dutch to English
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
I just use macros in MSWord for that. Surprising so few people use macros.
Probably because macros are not as intuitive as a well-designed software - give me any CAT and I will be using the basics within a couple of minutes. I wouldn't oppose learning to use macros, though, if I had the time.
It takes about 2 seconds to create a macro to find/replace a group of words. If you start the macro thing and keep going, in about 5 minutes of copy/pasting you can create a single macro that will find/replace 100 words or phrases in less than the blink of an eye. You then save the macro and use it on other projects. And you pay nothing. It's included in MSWord. What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
For future projects you just run whatever macros you want to use, and you get instantaneous, consistent translation.[Edited at 2015-03-04 15:17 GMT]
I just read that last part (bold). You can't be serious. I think the problem here is you don't really know what modern CAT tools are capable of. You obviously have never translated a software manual
Michael
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:10
Member
Dutch to English
+ ...
Erik Freitag wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
What does a CAT tool do that's better than this?
I'm sure that's not a serious question. Of course, there's quite a lot, but by now, we all know you're not interested (and that's fine!) ...
That aside, macros can certainly be a very powerful tool for translators.
[Bearbeitet am 2015-03-04 15:41 GMT]
Speaking of useful macros, if Tom's macros do even 2% of Stanislav Okhvat's absolutely amazing "Translator Tools", I'll eat my hat, feather and all.
For those of you who haven't tried it yet, have a look at this super-duper, free collection of macros: http://www.translatortools.net/word-about.html
Michael
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 07:10
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| TM concordance | Mar 4, 2015 |
While it's true that Wordfast Classic is not much more than a giant macro, it's the connections with outside files such as the TM folder that I find very useful. One of the most useful features I find is its concordance search - you're translating a sentence and you recall that you already translated that phrase, maybe months ago and for a completely different client, and you can't remember how you translated it. Push the right buttons and, voila, there are all the times you translated that ph... See more While it's true that Wordfast Classic is not much more than a giant macro, it's the connections with outside files such as the TM folder that I find very useful. One of the most useful features I find is its concordance search - you're translating a sentence and you recall that you already translated that phrase, maybe months ago and for a completely different client, and you can't remember how you translated it. Push the right buttons and, voila, there are all the times you translated that phrase (not segment, just might be a couple of words) before. Few other tools have as quick or comprehensive a concordance search function.
And all using Word macros.
[Edited at 2015-03-04 20:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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