This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
croupette
l’élévage sous bois
Dec 30, 2002 14:36
21 yrs ago
French term

les sociétés primitives sont des sociétés violentes

French to English Social Sciences Archaeology
Les sociétés primitives sont des sociétés violentes, leur être social est un être-pour-la-guerre.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 primitive societies are violent societies, their social existence being structured around war(s)
3 +5 Primitive societies are violent as their very reason for being is war.
5 +3 Primitive societies are violent ones, their social being is a being-for-war.
5 +2 Primitive societies are violent ones, the essence of their society (being) focused on war
4 +1 Primitive societies are violent societies;
4 +1 primitive societies are violent societies, as their collective being is based on a war ethos.
4 +1 Primitive societies are violent, as the very fabric of their existence is war.
4 primitive societies are violent societies, their social structure is geared for war
4 primitive societies are violence-oriented, their main social link is all together for warfare
3 they organize as societies for war purposes (united we stand)
3 Primitive societies are violent, their social being/standing/existence is one that is pro-war
3 Primitive societies are violent societies: it is for the sake of war that they exist as societies.
3 primitive societies are socially inclined to violence,their raison d´´etre being war
2 Primitive societies are violent ones, their social status is being at war
Change log

Mar 19, 2011 13:04: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Term asked" from "sentence" to "les sociétés primitives sont des sociétés violentes" , "Field (write-in)" from "archaeology" to "(none)"

Mar 19, 2011 13:04: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Social Sciences"

Proposed translations

+4
2 mins
Selected

primitive societies are violent societies, their social existence being structured around war(s)

Happy New Year!
Peer comment(s):
agree Peter McCavana : If this is so, may one conclude that many of today's so-called "advanced" societies are in fact primitive?...
45 mins
unfortunately one may indeed! Happy New Year nevertheless!
agree Peter Coles
1 hr
agree Clair Pickworth : having read all the others I come back to this first suggest - it is clear and succinct
21 hrs
agree NancyLynn : nicely put.
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
2 mins

Primitive societies are violent ones, their social status is being at war

+
Something went wrong...
+1
3 mins

Primitive societies are violent societies;

their communal sense is steeped in war.
Peer comment(s):
agree Peter Coles : Nice.
1 hr
thanks and happy holidays!
Something went wrong...
20 mins

they organize as societies for war purposes (united we stand)

Primitive societies are violent ones, their social nature/organization reflecting their be/live-to-make-war law/principle/whatever

a rather clumsy try, though :)
Something went wrong...
+2
30 mins

Primitive societies are violent ones, the essence of their society (being) focused on war

other options:

Primitive societies are violent societies, essentially focused on war

Primitive societies are violent(ones), their social essence focused on war
Peer comment(s):
agree Domenica Grangiotti : I was thinking along the same lines
17 mins
Thanks, Domenica
agree Peter McCavana
17 mins
Thanks, Peter
Something went wrong...
38 mins

primitive societies are violent societies, their social structure is geared for war

another construction; the 'être' doesn't really work right here in English

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-30 15:18:15 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And Michèle \'ones\' is better, to avoid the society/social repetition; so:

\"Primitive societies are violent ones, their social structure is geared for war\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-31 02:53:05 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wondering how important for the context it is to write this in the Present, and dubious about the punctuation in English, here\'s another suggestion:

\"Primitive societies were violent, with their social structures geared for warfare\"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Whilst PMD's generally gets my "vote" for the turn of phrase, the point about the tense is one I had overlooked and may be very important here.
1 day 20 hrs
Something went wrong...
44 mins

Primitive societies are violent, their social being/standing/existence is one that is pro-war

My suggestion.
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Much prefer this one (of 12), as I see no need to repeat the word "societies" ; "pro-war" is neat. I'd even get rid of the "is one that"...
2 hrs
Thank you
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : sorry, but use of hyphens is a French tradition carried over into English
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
+5
45 mins

Primitive societies are violent as their very reason for being is war.

I think that this is self-explanatory. In the context, I wonder if "war" means "defence". It is always a problem translating a sentence without the rest of the text.
Peer comment(s):
agree Peter McCavana
3 mins
agree Noel Castelino : Yes, the second part of the sentence explains the first. Agree about context too.
18 mins
agree sujata
30 mins
agree Pierre POUSSIN : I DO like it!
2 hrs
agree luskie
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
53 mins

primitive societies are violent societies, as their collective being is based on a war ethos.

OR
primitive societies are violent societies, as their collective ethos is based on war.
OR
primitive societies are violent societies, as their collective ethos is war-oriented.
Peer comment(s):
agree Noel Castelino : Yes, but it also seems (from the sentence) that they have no choice in the matter.
15 mins
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Primitive societies are violent societies: it is for the sake of war that they exist as societies.

This is based on the previous two suggestions.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-30 15:56:15 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Var.

Primitive societies are violent, and it is for the sake of war that they exist as societies.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

primitive societies are socially inclined to violence,their raison d´´etre being war

sorry do´t know how to do the circumflex. raison détre is a neoligism frequently used in English
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

primitive societies are violence-oriented, their main social link is all together for warfare

another go
Something went wrong...
+3
3 hrs

Primitive societies are violent ones, their social being is a being-for-war.


References to philosophy: BEING

See Hegel Being and Logic of Science

and Sartre as in:
Sartre distinguishes between two types of Being: “Being-in-itself” (être-en-soi) and “Being-for-itself” (être-pour-soi). Being-in-itself is non-conscious Being, the Being of existing things or objects of consciousness. Being-for-itself is conscious Being, which is conscious of what it is not.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-30 18:09:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note that you should really use the word BEING and BEING-for-war because the author is anchored in this philosophical tradition, which exists now, due to Hegel, Sartre andothers in English...
Peer comment(s):
agree luskie
27 mins
I'm gonna stop wasting my time on these things. It's frustrating....
agree Noel Castelino : I agree with some trepidation. We cannot be sure that the author is either an existentialist or a Hegelian.
47 mins
yes-- the signifier être used in this manner and the hyphens indicate some connection with French philosophy. No doubt about it even if he does not know it he is using their language. or she
agree William Stein : "être-pour-la-guerre" is not a normal term so there's no reason to try to find a run-of-the-mill equivalent
2 hrs
Exactly
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Certainly an approach worth considering in the overall context of the original text, which we don't have. As is I do however have doubts about the author's intention to elevate this one onto an existenialist plane.
1 day 17 hrs
It does not matter Nikki, If someone uses a certain style, even if unbeknownst to them, the translator respects what is there not the intention. But why not consult French intellectuals. I know in this particular case of what I speak...:)
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

Primitive societies are violent, as the very fabric of their existence is war.


There are so many ways to rephrase this thing that it makes my head spin.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
6 days
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search