Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Nov 13, 2019 22:55
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
mar de fondo
English to Spanish
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
behavior
"Nos adentramos entonces a ese mar de fondo que subyace a lo evidente de los mercados financieros", source Spanish from Spain, target US English (and all around the world).
The term appears in the context of a Social Science that categorizes different types of thinking and relating to reality. This implies showing unseen aspects of human reality, which underlie evident or "naked eye" aspects. "Mar de fondo" is a term used in Spanish, in the context of this Science, for indicating something that underlies unseen. Although its translation can be found as "groundswell", I think the meaning is different in this context. I need a better expression for this than "groundswell", which is the one I am using right now. Or I need to know if it is a correct term for what I am trying to express. Thanks a lot.
Site of this Social Science for more context: www.creatividad-etica.com/?lang=en
The term appears in the context of a Social Science that categorizes different types of thinking and relating to reality. This implies showing unseen aspects of human reality, which underlie evident or "naked eye" aspects. "Mar de fondo" is a term used in Spanish, in the context of this Science, for indicating something that underlies unseen. Although its translation can be found as "groundswell", I think the meaning is different in this context. I need a better expression for this than "groundswell", which is the one I am using right now. Or I need to know if it is a correct term for what I am trying to express. Thanks a lot.
Site of this Social Science for more context: www.creatividad-etica.com/?lang=en
Proposed translations
(Spanish)
2 +2 | undertow | Ana Vozone |
3 +2 | deep/hidden undercurrent | Muriel Vasconcellos |
4 +1 | shady background | neilmac |
4 +1 | deep dive (see explanation) | David Ronder |
3 +1 | inscrutable depths | Michele Fauble |
Change log
Nov 13, 2019 22:54: Karen Zaragoza changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"
Nov 13, 2019 22:55: Karen Zaragoza changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"
Nov 15, 2019 13:14: David Ronder changed "Language pair" from "Spanish to English" to "English to Spanish"
Nov 27, 2019 09:10: Ana Vozone Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
1 day 14 hrs
Selected
undertow
Another possibility, in this specific context.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRoFTHHH2Ifaf9YoyNj...
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRoFTHHH2Ifaf9YoyNj...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Chema Nieto Castañón
: Good one!
26 mins
|
Thank you, Chema!
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agree |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: Actually, that was the word I was looking for when I posted my answer.
7 hrs
|
Thanks, Muriel! :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
3 hrs
deep/hidden undercurrent
deep undercurrent /concealed undercurrent
Explanation:
I'm not sure about your context, but here's a Merriam-Webster International definition of 'undercurrent':
Main Entry:1undercurrent
Pronunciation:******
Function:noun
Etymology:3under + current
1 : a current below the upper currents or surface of a fluid body (as water or air)
2 : a tendency of opinion or feeling not openly displayed and often contrary to the one publicly shown *an undercurrent in favor of the accused had set in*
I also thought of 'riptide' or 'rip current', but rejected the idea because it's on the surface. It pulls swimmers out into the ocean.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-14 02:20:02 GMT)
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In your context, to avoid saying 'under' twice, you could go with: 'this hidden undercurrent that runs deep beneath the surface'
Explanation:
I'm not sure about your context, but here's a Merriam-Webster International definition of 'undercurrent':
Main Entry:1undercurrent
Pronunciation:******
Function:noun
Etymology:3under + current
1 : a current below the upper currents or surface of a fluid body (as water or air)
2 : a tendency of opinion or feeling not openly displayed and often contrary to the one publicly shown *an undercurrent in favor of the accused had set in*
I also thought of 'riptide' or 'rip current', but rejected the idea because it's on the surface. It pulls swimmers out into the ocean.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-11-14 02:20:02 GMT)
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In your context, to avoid saying 'under' twice, you could go with: 'this hidden undercurrent that runs deep beneath the surface'
Peer comment(s):
agree |
franglish
7 hrs
|
Thank you!
|
|
agree |
Lucas Tamagni
: Hi, I posted the question. So far this is the best answer, although I still have the feeling that a most accurate term can be found. This is because it would not necessarily be linked to an opinion or tendency, but to unseen aspects of reality. Thank you!
1 day 10 hrs
|
Thank you, Lucas!
|
+1
20 hrs
inscrutable depths
One way of expressing it.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lucas Tamagni
: Thanks for the answer. I would not choose this one because a similar expression is being used in other parts of the text to say something different.
16 hrs
|
+1
1 day 9 hrs
shady background
Muriel and Michele have already provided two neat suggestions. So, I've decided to dispense with the maritime metaphor and just go straight for the jugular. Another similar option could be somethinh with "dark underbelly".
"We then/thus enter that shady background underlying the visible face of the financial markets"
"We then/thus enter that shady background underlying the visible face of the financial markets"
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lucas Tamagni
: Thx! This is pretty close to the meaning I seek to express, although not always refering to something shady or dark in the way of hidden or evil intentions. Sometimes it expresses that a more crucial matter goes unseen under what is evident, even positive
3 hrs
|
+1
1 day 14 hrs
deep dive (see explanation)
"Nos adentramos entonces a ese mar de fondo que subyace a lo evidente..." > So we do a deep dive to what underlies the obvious..."
Deep diving is quite often used in this way. Examples to follow.
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Note added at 1 day 14 hrs (2019-11-15 13:14:44 GMT)
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-is-a-deep...
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs (2019-11-15 14:24:50 GMT)
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This one is interesting because it includes the possible alternative 'deep story':
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neolib...
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs (2019-11-15 14:28:53 GMT)
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A typical example:
https://usabilla.com/blog/the-psychology-of-text/
Deep diving is quite often used in this way. Examples to follow.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 14 hrs (2019-11-15 13:14:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-is-a-deep...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 15 hrs (2019-11-15 14:24:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This one is interesting because it includes the possible alternative 'deep story':
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neolib...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 15 hrs (2019-11-15 14:28:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A typical example:
https://usabilla.com/blog/the-psychology-of-text/
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lucas Tamagni
: Hi David, it is a good option, but I mostly need to use it as a noun that expresses "that which lies unseen and is more vast than what is evident". If I used deep dive I would have to specify where or what we're diving into
2 days 10 hrs
|
Sometimes shuffling the parts of speech helps reach a translation solution. 'Deep dive' is a verb phrase here, but it has a noun phrase attached ('what underlies the obvious') and together they translate the whole idea.
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Discussion
Surge que, desde nuestra Ciencia Social, el problema fundamental no son los bucles de retroalimentación que promueven las burbujas (sólo síntoma), si no el mar de fondo que sistematizo desde las vetas involutivas de la Ciencia Social.
Nos adentramos a una hipótesis principal: los Bucles de Retroalimentación Reflexiva (BRR) que, según su Marco Conceptual, son la clave de la mecánica de los Mercados Financieros en cuanto a la producción de burbujas, sus consiguientes estallidos y crisis financieras, son sólo un síntoma de una enfermedad o mar de fondo que es la ‘Lógica del Maquiavelismo’. Esa aparente normalidad que influye sobre la Política, la Sociedad, la Democracia.
La ‘mar de fondo’ (‘swell’) es la componente del oleaje que hay ‘aquí’, pero no la genera el viento de aquí (puede no hacer viento); se generó en zonas lejanas y viajó hasta aquí.
(Lo anterior es divulgación oceanográfica, imho correcta).
Usar metáforas, en ciencia, es asumir riesgos; traducirlas es aún más arriesgado.
Mar de fondo https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_de_fondo =
= Swell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swell_(ocean)#Sources_of_wind_...