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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

título profesional

English translation:

professional degree

Added to glossary by Henry Hinds
Jan 25, 2011 21:36
13 yrs ago
129 viewers *
Spanish term

título profesional

Spanish to English Law/Patents Education / Pedagogy Mexico
ARTICULO 1o.- Título profesional es el documento expedido por instituciones del Estado o descentralizadas, y por instituciones particulares que tenga reconocimiento de validez oficial de estudios, a favor de la persona que haya concluido los estudios correspondientes o demostrado tener los conocimientos necesarios de conformidad con esta Ley y otras disposiciones aplicables.
Artículo reformado DOF 02-01-1974
ARTICULO 2o.- Las leyes que regulen campos de acción relacionados con alguna rama o especialidad profesional, determinarán cuáles son las actividades profesionales que necesitan título y cédula para su ejercicio.
Artículo reformado DOF 02-01-1974
ARTICULO 3o.- Toda persona a quien legalmente se le haya expedido título profesional o grado académico equivalente, podrá obtener cédula de ejercicio con efectos de patente, previo registro de dicho título o grado.
Artículo reformado DOF 02-01-1974

professional degree/certificate? I was going with "professional degree" until I got to Article 3...
Proposed translations (English)
5 +1 professional degree
5 +2 university degree
4 +2 college degree
4 +2 professional title/qualification
4 +1 occupational qualification
5 Bachelor's degree
4 Bachelor degree
4 academic certification/certificate
Change log

Jan 27, 2011 19:11: Henry Hinds Created KOG entry

Discussion

Teresita Fierro Espasandín Jan 26, 2011:
Just in case it is useful:I am an English Teacher "graduada por Concurso de Oposición y Méritos en Enseñañza Secundaria" That means that I was given "GRADO" after passing a special contest directed to people who were working at the moment and hadn´t attended the Instituto de Profesores Artigas which is one of the the Official Schools for teachers in Uruguay.(I had studied privately and continued with my on-training courses)
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 26, 2011:
professional diploma http://www.johncarlini.com/Credentials/BerkleeDip.jpg
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 26, 2011:
For those interested...
•The American Heritage Dictionary defines "degree" as being the actual title given to one who has completed a course of study. "Diploma" is defined as the document presented to the student upon completion (see Resources).


Read more: Degree Vs. Diploma | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_4843420_degree-vs-diploma.html#ixz...
Claudia Reynaud Jan 26, 2011:
Exactly... one of those. ¡Saludos desde México!
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 26, 2011:
So it's one of these: http://www.anadisec.com/images/Titulo_profesional.jpg

A diploma or whatever it would be called in English...
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 26, 2011:
You all rock! I think it's really awesome (in collaquial terms) that you put so much effort into trying to help figure this out. To be clear, the list of professions I provided below, are governed by the requirement of a "cédula de ejercicio con efectos de patente" which is the license to practice any of those professions. The "título" or "grado" is a prerequisite to obtaining said license. Perhaps these two latter terms are synonymous as legal texts sometimes contain this sort of repetition, or perhaps...
Claudia Reynaud Jan 26, 2011:
To Ray... In Mexico, a "título profesional" is a piece of paper you get, with your photo on it, your name, the name of the University you attended and your "major" (sort of speak, since there are no "majors and minors" per se in Mexico) after having completed and passed all subjects required under a 4-year college/university program (in Mexico, called "licenciatura"). After getting this piece of paper, you have to go through a bunch of red tape to get what's called a "cédula profesional", which is a little card, also with your photo on it, that certifies that you can work as a doctor (6-year program), lawyer, engineer, accountant, psychologist (all 4-year programs), whatever. A "título profesional" has absolutely nothing to do with diplomados, bachillerato, short degrees or anything else not related to a formal college/university program. Please believe me. Albeit many, many years ago, I've gone through the whole process myself.
Charles Davis Jan 26, 2011:
Hi, Gallagy My previous comments weren't directed at you; I can see from your answer that you were looking at Mexico all along. And I'm sure there are all sorts of levels of qualification, including non-degree ones; it's just that my reading of the material was that this particular expression means a degree. Cheers!
Charles Davis Jan 26, 2011:
Virginia You're right; the moral of the story, as others have been saying, is that each country is a law unto itself, and any analogy (like the one I just made with Spain) is likely to be at best una verdad a medias. ¡Saludos!
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 26, 2011:
Charles, it seems you are reading a totally different extract, discussion and postings. I looked at the Mexican education link BEFORE I posted, hours ago now and saw there are quite a few different levels of qualification. Anyway, I've spent enough time on this and seem to be merely a sheet blowing in the wind so I'm off to bed!
Virginia Koolhaas Jan 26, 2011:
Charles They are not necessarily short degrees because if you look at the list of professions, you will find doctors (including surgeon), lawyers, architects, vets, dentists, accountants, etc and those are all professions of AT LEAST 4 -year duration.
Charles Davis Jan 26, 2011:
Claudia was right The nearest equivalent to this in Spanish terms is a "diploma/diplomatura"; in other words, a short degree (shorter than a licenciatura, which also exists in Mexico: see Ray's list). It is difficult to rid one's mind of the idea that this is a professional qualification, in the sense of a vocational training course and associated diploma/title, but it is not. It is a university degree (a college degree in US terms), a course of study that you need in order to go on to practise any of a wide range of professions/occupations (armed with your cédula profesional). So too, as Virginia has pointed out, do you need a degree of some sort to practice most professions in other countries too, including most if not all the ones on Ray's list.
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 26, 2011:
Charles, OOPS, I rather miss that bit at the top. How right you are. Big SORRY TO RAY on that one.
Charles Davis Jan 26, 2011:
Mexican degree... First, I am surprised there was ever any confusion about the country, when the heading of the question says "Law/Patents - Education/Pedagogy/Mexico" (it's always worth looking at that bit!). Second, that being so, all you have to do is to look at some Mexican sources (starting with the Secretaría de Educación Pública, http://www.sep.gob.mx), to see that this is indeed a degree, and that the associated certification is called the Cédula profesional.
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 26, 2011:
So basically, this is really about the minimum accredited qualification needed for particular professions OR as Bill said, occupations
Virginia Koolhaas Jan 26, 2011:
Gallagy Yes! You have to go to Law School for 5 years (in other countries is 4) to become a Notary (6 to become a Lawyer and 10 to become a Doctor!). But they are not like Notaries in your country, I'm afraid...
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 26, 2011:
Gallegy, Whether or not I think your answer is still the best with our newly acquired country knowledge. Bachelor's degree in English is highly specific. It certainly wouldn't cover a doctor.
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 25, 2011:
Bill,
Virginia is not right in insisting this is a degree when it is not necessarily the case. Really, a degree for a pilot? 5 years to be a Notary?
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 25, 2011:
Virginia, I do so agree. As it turns out Gallegy's answer is right after all, except for the title bit.
Virginia Koolhaas Jan 25, 2011:
In Uruguay, Argentina and most Latin American countries "título profesional" means that you have a University/college degree. Even for Notaries, like Gallagy said, in Argentina, Uruguay (and I think in other LAM countries as well) you HAVE to University for 5 years in order to get your degree as ESCRIBANO (in other countries they are called NOTARIOS). I'm not sure in Spain but it all depends on the countries. Therefore, it would be useful to now the country of origin of the source text and target audience.
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 25, 2011:
Clarification This is Legislation from Mexico for a US target audience.

The legislation refers to the qualifications one must have in order to practice any of the jobs listed below.

Also, Article 1, states in part that "Título profesional" is a document issued for accredited studies or for having demonstrated sufficient knowledge.

I have carefully read everything everyone has posted, and I REALLY appreciate all the input. I was under the impression that in Mexico this always referred to a university degree... that said, here it is being distinguished from an academic degree.
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 25, 2011:
Gallagy I've checked and Virginia is right that in MEXICO the term titulo profesional does not have the same meaning as in Spain. That's why all this becomes silly unless we know in advance which country we are talking about. Not to mention a waste of everybody's time and effort.
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 25, 2011:
it's just a qualification people, and can be any level at that! I don't know why people are insisting on this being university degrees/diplomas etc for electricians, pilots etc. As I originally said, the title or qualification will match the actual course followed so e.g. "Licenciado en Derecho" will be an LL.B whereas a notary will have a different, lower, qualification and an electician could have some trade qualification (in UK would be City and Guilds)
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 25, 2011:
Virginia, I'm not in the least suggesting it's from Spain. What I am saying is that usage varies widely and it would be sensible always to indicate the country. By the way, a friend of mine runs a translation business in New York and nearly all his work is from Spain, and another has a translation business in Atlanta and nearly all HIS comes from Spain. Spain pays much better and US translators prefer it if they can get it. I myself opened a translation branch of my organization in New York in 2001 and we targeted Spain for translation work.
Virginia Koolhaas Jan 25, 2011:
Bill Why SPAIN??? The asker is in the U.S., so the chances are that the translation is targeted to LAM audience, hence it is better to use whatever term is more widely used in Latin America. But that's just my opinon...
Bill Harrison (X) Jan 25, 2011:
Virginia, NOT IN SPAIN, You said: ""Título profesional" always refers to university/college degree, it's not any qualification (hence electricians would not qualify)"

But in Spain:
"Enseñanzas profesionales oficiales: Reciben el nombre de Ciclos Formativos de Formación Profesional y existen 142 títulos diferentes agrupados en 22 familias profesionales, con una duración de uno a dos años (entre 1300 y 2000 horas.

De grado medio: Su superación permite obtener el título de Técnico de la especialidad estudiada.
De grado superior: Permite obtener el título de Técnico Superior de la especialidad estudiada."
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grado_académico

AND
Por formación profesional se entiende todos aquellos estudios y aprendizajes encaminados a la inserción, reinserción y actualización laboral, cuyo objetivo principal es aumentar y adecuar el conocimiento y habilidades de los actuales y futuros trabajadores a lo largo de toda la vida.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formación_Profesional

This includes electricians.

So many of these things are country-specific that there really ought to be a convention of referring to the country in these questions.
Jenni Lukac (X) Jan 25, 2011:
As one doesn't need a degree (and it most places not even a diploma) to be a notary and several other professions on the list (here the concept of professions seems to go beyond the American concept of the liberal professions), I'd stick with something close to certification. When I looked for examples for my answer, I saw that there was a "título" for hairdresser. It seems to refer to everything from vocational courses to doctoral degrees-- something that would be common here in Spain as well.
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 25, 2011:
yes! they are: Actuario
Arquitecto
Bacteriólogo
Biólogo
Cirujano
dentista
Contador
Corredor
Enfermera
Enfermera y partera
Ingeniero
Licenciado en Derecho
Licenciado en Economía
Marino
Médico.
Médico Veterinario.
Metalúrgico.
Notario.
Piloto aviador.
Profesor de educación preescolar.
Profesor de educación primaria.
Profesor de Educación secundaria.
Químico.
Trabajador social.
Jenni Lukac (X) Jan 25, 2011:
Diploma might be misleading. Is their a list of the types of educational courses covered by these articles elsewhere in the document?
Ray Ables (asker) Jan 25, 2011:
I really appreciate all the suggestions! What about... professional diploma/certificate?

Proposed translations

+1
18 hrs
Selected

professional degree

I agree with you. I have translated many such documents through the years, I am quite familiar with the system Claudia describes and "professional degree" is my choice.

I don't understand where all the noise comes from.
Note from asker:
But the document itself is a professional diploma, no? The University of Alabama conferred the Degree of Bachelor of Arts upon me, and I have the diploma hanging on the wall to prove it.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not in this context.
21 hrs
Yes, absolutely in this context.
agree omnia_vanitas
4442 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Henry!"
+2
2 mins

college degree

Al menos en México, el equivalente al "college degree" es el título profesional.

¡Saludos!
Note from asker:
Gracias Claudia
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : In Mexico, yes. College degree is OK for US (which is presumably target).
1 hr
Thanks, Charles!
agree Virginia Koolhaas : Para EEUU - university degree para UK
1 hr
Thanks, Virginia!
neutral Bill Harrison (X) : In the English-speaking world a college degree very rarely constitutes any sort of professional qualification. Too misleading.
2 hrs
In Mexico, a "título profesional" doesn't constitute a professional qualification either. You have to get a "cédula profesional" after you get your "título" in order to work in your profession.
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not in this context
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
14 mins

university degree

"College degree" se refiere unicamente al grado de bachillerato. Me parece que al decir 'University degree' dejamos espacio para otros grados universitarios más allá del bachillerato, como una maestría o doctorado.
Note from asker:
Gracias Coralia
Peer comment(s):
agree Virginia Koolhaas : Me parece correcto tanto para UK como US, aunque seguramente en EEUU es más común "College degree"
1 hr
neutral Bill Harrison (X) : In the English-speaking world a university degree very rarely constitutes any sort of professional qualification. Too misleading.
2 hrs
agree Gabriella Bertelmann : agree
4 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not in this context
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
34 mins

Bachelor degree

"El Bachelor degree (Hons) es
el titulo oficial universitario que imparten las
universidades Inglesas. Equivale en rango a una licenciatura." (pag 9)

"-sobre-reconocimiento-revalidacion-y-convalidacion-de-titulos-profesionales-y-grados-academicos-obtenidos-en-el-extranjero..."



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2011-01-25 22:15:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

En USA Bachelor's degree (B. A. B.S.) son cuatro años postriores a la Secundaria.
Luego en orden ascendente: Master's Degree Study;
Doctor's Degree Study
Posdoctoral Study research
Reference:

http://www.isead.es/portal/descargas/presentacion/presentacion-ACCA.pdf

http://www.med.uchile.cl/revalida-de-titulo/245

Note from asker:
Gracias Teresita
Peer comment(s):
neutral Bill Harrison (X) : In the English-speaking world any degree very rarely constitutes any sort of professional qualification. Too misleading.
1 hr
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not in this context
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
39 mins

occupational qualification

profesional in Spanish is not the same as professional in English, a term reserved for the more prestigious occupations.

categoria profesional is seen in convenios colectivos for example to refer to factory workers.

university and college is not correct. not many electricians studied at university

title is not right - this is the document certifying studies etc. titulo is normally qualification in this context.

hence occupational qualification. it would include doctors and electricians.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2011-01-25 22:35:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is how I see 'profesional' used in Spain day in day out:

El sistema de clasificación profesional de los trabajadores en grupos o categorías profesionales viene establecido para cada ámbito profesional bien mediante convenio colectivo, o en su defecto, por acuerdo entre la empresa y los representantes de los trabajadores y por tanto .....

http://www.gabilos.com/weblaboral/DerechoLaboral/textoTrabaj...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-01-25 22:39:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I nearly always translate profesional as occupational.
Note from asker:
Gracias Bill
Peer comment(s):
neutral Virginia Koolhaas : "Título profesional" always refers to university/college degree, it's not any qualification (hence electricians would not qualify)
41 mins
See my discussion note above.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : for what it's worth Bill, I prefer my own "professional" but your suggestion would work too in this context
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Bachelor's degree

o University Degree (UK) / College degree (USA)
Note from asker:
Gracias Virginia
Peer comment(s):
neutral Bill Harrison (X) : In the English-speaking world a degree of any sort very rarely constitutes any sort of professional qualification. Too misleading.
1 hr
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not in this context
1 day 14 hrs
Something went wrong...
45 mins

academic certification/certificate

I think that this might be the safest bet as the document seems to refer to a wide range of possibilities, all resulting in a person being qualified to do something professionally. I translate a lot of documents related to education and it's surprising how many "postgraduate" programmes are certificate courses that don't award a degree. Examples: El acceso a la formación profesional se realiza de forma directa, cuando se está en posesión del ... Sin titulación académica: Without academic certificate: ...
centros5.pntic.mec.es/ies.de.norena/.../emp1.htm - En caché - Similares; International Programs: International Admission Requirements for ...
Official Certificación Académica Personal (personal academic certification) and Título de Licenciado/Ingeniero, etc. plus diploma supplement for completed ...
international.depaul.edu/Admission/Admission/.../index.asp - En caché

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2011-01-26 16:38:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thinking about the debate this question has sparked, something occurred to me and it seems to fit: "certificate of sucessful completion of an accredited program". The ADA reference below states "diploma, degree or certificate", which would cover everything.

Some examples:

1 Nov 2010 ... Persons qualified under any of these accredited programs are ... (Mexico) Ingeniero en Costos (ICC) Program - Accreditation expires 1 September 2007. .... Certification shall be granted upon successful completion of a ...
International Cost Engineering Council Accredited Certification ...
www.icoste.org/accred.htm - En caché - Similares;

Justia :: 40 C.F.R. § 745.226 Certification of individuals and ...
(1) Successful completion of an accredited training course for inspectors; and ... a course completion certificate from an accredited training program. ...
law.justia.com/.../40-30.0.1.1.13.6.1.4.html - Estados Unidos - En caché - Similares

[PDF]
ADA.org: Summary of State Educational Requirements for ...
-
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Vista rápida
in accredited program. The Dental Board has authority to approve ... University de La Salle in Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico is the only approved program. ... diploma, degree, or certificate as evidence of program completion. Georgia (GA) ..... dental school and evidence of the successful completion of an ADA- ...
www.ada.org/sections/.../pdfs/licensure_state_requirements_...









Note from asker:
Gracias Jenni
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : agree with "certification" but it's not necessarily academic; could be technical/vocational training
1 day 15 hrs
That was my point.
Something went wrong...
+2
15 mins

professional title/qualification

which matches the course they have followed...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2011-01-25 21:55:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"...los estudios correspondientes o demostrado tener los conocimientos necesarios de conformidad con esta Ley y otras disposiciones aplicables..."

so if they have done enough to earn a BA for example, that is the title or Master etc. I think this document is spelling out that the title will match the grade/course

..."expedido título profesional o grado académico equivalente",


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2011-01-25 22:08:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

if you have the number, you can check if the degree is genuine at following www. Also different levels of studies evident

Nivel Técnico o Profesional Técnico


Nivel Técnico Superior Universitario o Profesional Asociado



Nivel Licenciatura

10 Ene 2011 ... Registro de Título y Expedición de Cédula Profesional. Contenido de sección ... Argentina #28 Centro Histórico México D.F. C.P 06029 - Tel. ...
www.sep.gob.mx › ... › Autorización y Registro Profesional - Cached





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2011-01-27 13:08:01 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I really believe you've picked the wrong answer, not sour grapes on my part at all. It's obviously NOT necessarily a degree or even a diploma in this context at all. (And I've been saying that from the start).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2011-01-27 13:35:05 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You obviously seem to be confused between degree and diploma and certificate; they are all different things and a diploma is NOT a degree

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2011-01-27 16:47:23 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

yes, thanks for your explanation and certainly the Mexican system is quite complicated with a lot of misleading language and "degrees". I saw one "degree" on one of the links that only required 2 years study! They also have a system where seond-level course are actually part of university preparation course so that in fact it is misleading to say that they spend extra years at university level. It would be wonderful if, as is beginning to happen in the EU, that university courses/titles/degrees would be standardised. Some of the "professions" you gave we would say are more "occupations". Anyway, people get very dogmatic about their opinions...
Note from asker:
Gracias gallagy
For what it's worth, I changed my mind about my answer and I now think you are right. I found this link: http://www.wes.org/ewenr/06jun/practical.htm I'm still a bit confused... sorry for being a bit too hasty in awarding this answer.
I know what a degree, diploma and certificate are. My confusion was stemming from trying to figure out what a Título is in Mexico. The certificate itself appears to be a diploma for a college degree, but after further research I have learned that there are requirements for a "título profesional" in Mexico that exceed those of most degrees in the US, including presenting one's diploma, passing an exam, and completing a term of social service. I already contacted one of the moderators, Fernando Larrazabal, and asked if I could change the selected answer. He tells me it is possible, but Henry Hinds would have to agree. For what it's worth, I'm sorry... I do think "Title" is more accurate with the meaning it carries in Mexico, but not "qualification" however, as it is far too general.
Peer comment(s):
agree Bill Harrison (X) : Yes, need not be university or college. qualification definitely BUT title is not so good - it is not a 'document' here and it means 'qualification' in this context.. PS. mmmmm, still think title is too ambiguous.
18 mins
yes, I think it's just a qualification, but "nurse" etc. can also be seen as a type of title, not quite the same as a "real professional" such as doctor//thanks Bill, can always omit title part
agree neilmac : Yes, because "qualification" sidesteps the issue of whether it's a degree or diploma or whatnot :)
20 hrs
thanks Neil, exactly the reason it's all-encompassing:-)
neutral Henry Hinds : Just to put this to rest, non-university courses and vocational occupations are not discussed. The SEP does not issue a cédula for those, only for college degrees or equivalents thereof as it clearly states in the references above.
1 day 17 hrs
Of course I know a university issues degrees! Normally I would agree with this translation but not in this context where non-university courses and vocational occupations are discussed. //what about the pilot? Anyway, let's leave it!
Something went wrong...
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