| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Finding work through fellow translators Thread poster: S_G_C (X)
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P.L.F. Persio 
Netherlands
Local time: 00:55
English to Italian
+ ...
Baran Keki wrote:
I know that some people here are ready and willing to take offense at the slightest opportunity, but I believe I've made a valid point in that post. There are ****s like that person who abuse the system, and then there are people like the OP who are genuinely in need of the benefits provided by that system. Life is unfair sometimes...
This makes me sound like a kind of stalker, but I used to read everything you wrote – because I found you witty and smart –, and I remember a number of previous statements in other threads, with less than flattering remarks about Eastern Europeans. Once was annoying enough, more than once stinks of racism.
The attempts at humour in this very thread all have a rather mean streak, but that's my dainty, delicate, hypersensitive snowflake's Weltanschauung talking. So sue me.
I regularly read the British press, and I've never found that story you report. Yes, there are people who abuse the system, but they're by far much fewer that some kind of press (the various, infamous Dailys) wants us to believe. Besides, access to benefits has always been rather difficult to the British citizens, I guess it's an even more gruelling process for an outsider. And they can barely keep people fed and their houses warmed, let alone buy them lavish mansions. I doubt the OP would have found much help in the UK, if any at all. And the problems they face in the UK are not in the slightest the faults of migrants, or the EU, just to be clear.
Calling someone a fat gipsy is wrong, racist, sexist, bigoted and ignorant anywhere in the world, period. And if I had a penny for every I know that some people here are ready and willing to take offense at the slightest opportunity, I'd be living – sulking and feeling outraged, obviously – in one of those lavish mansions reserved to prolific scumbags.
As for Sorana, hang in there. You asked for advice, and you'll be able to find a way to help yourself and your child.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 02:55
Member
English to Turkish
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
I remember a number of previous statements in other threads, with less than flattering remarks about Eastern Europeans. Once was annoying enough, more than once stinks of racism.
I think you can add Italians to the list of people I've racially abused on these forums as well. My observations about Italian translators (their working for cheap rates, living with their parents etc.) were found to be politically incorrect and in extremely poor taste by some Italian ladies here.
If you're labeling me a racist towards Eastern Europeans based on my comments on Eastern European PMs and translation agencies (the so-called 'London agencies' operating out of Chişinău) that do not pay more than 4 cents per word and have the cheek to say 'this is normally what we pay for your language pair', then I'd say you're wrong. They are simply c***s in my book regardless of their nationality (whoops! I used the 'c' word there didn't I? How awfully rude and sexist of me!) I don't work with any Turkish people either (direct clients included, I could've had dozens of Turkish direct clients here, but I'm not looking for them, and in fact turning down any inquiries coming from them), because I know they pay peanuts, and there's no point in haggling with them. So I'm racist and prejudiced against my own folk as well? So be it then!
I've been reading a lot of negative remarks about Chinese and Indian agencies (the so-called 'best rate agencies') on these forums, but nobody's accused anybody of racism when those agencies were being discussed. Not until when an American colleague who had the misfortune to mention the word 'Chapati' when all the hell broke lose and the next thing you know he was hung, drawn and quartered on these forums as a 'racist bigot' (I'm afraid his penchant for guns didn't do him any favours either).
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
I regularly read the British press, and I've never found that story you report. Yes, there are people who abuse the system, but they're by far much fewer that some kind of press (the various, infamous Dailys) wants us to believe. Besides, access to benefits has always been rather difficult to the British citizens...
I don't read the British press as often as you do, and I don't claim to know much about British politics either. I just spent 2 years in the UK (up in Lancaster and down in Bedford area) and worked in a kebab shop, and had the delightful experience of rubbing shoulders with the average white English people (you know, those who drink themselves blind on the weekend, that kind of thing) in a small town, which also happened to host a fairly large Lithuanian community who came to the UK along with the Poles (oh, are we entering into the 'racist territory' again now?) after their countries' accession to the EU. So my remarks were mostly based on my first hand observations on the ground, as it were. I also spent a few weeks in Tottenham, London, which was an absolute shithole (oops I did it again!). I'm really sorry that I didn't get the chance to live in posh areas and mix with your Guardian reading types. I know this is all my fault!
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
Calling someone a fat gipsy is wrong, racist, sexist, bigoted and ignorant anywhere in the world, period.
Yes, I know, enough people have made it clear on these forums that 'calling a spade a spade' is no longer acceptable in the 'affluent West'. We shouldn't call a person 'gypsy' even if they're of Romani origin and live that lifestyle to the hilt. No sir!
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
– because I found you witty and smart –.
Thanks for your kind words, but I'm afraid you're giving me way too much credit than I deserve. I'm not that smart. I sometimes barely understand the intellectually crafted posts by the erudite, learned people on these forums. More often than not they go right over my head! I'm just a bigot who enjoy watching the likes of Alf Garnett, Rigsby and the On the Buses to improve his English.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 00:55
English to Italian
+ ...
I don't want to eviscerate your post sentence for sentence, as it'd mean hijacking Sorana's thread.
You're right on different points, and I'm guilty of being acquiescent with too many racist remarks on here. My beef with you in this instance, with most people in the world, and even with myself, is that we tend to put down the worst attitudes to people's nationalities/gender/religious beliefs, instead of the generally defective and shitty old human nature.
Besides, I really can... See more I don't want to eviscerate your post sentence for sentence, as it'd mean hijacking Sorana's thread.
You're right on different points, and I'm guilty of being acquiescent with too many racist remarks on here. My beef with you in this instance, with most people in the world, and even with myself, is that we tend to put down the worst attitudes to people's nationalities/gender/religious beliefs, instead of the generally defective and shitty old human nature.
Besides, I really can't stand cynicism anymore. Humour and cynicism make bad bedfellows.
I can't and won't dismiss your experiences but please, even though it's true that I'm a Guardian reader and supporter, don't tar me with the posh brush: I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I'm a migrant here in the Netherlands (definitely not an expat), I live in a working class neighbourhood in a working class town, and I'm a proletarian through and through, in that my daughter is my only riches.
I know what it means to lie awake in the middle of the night for months on end, worrying about money and work. Thankfully, my child was healthy but, if not for the help of wonderful and generous people, and the granting of student loans by the Dutch government (all repaid, I hasten to say), I don't know how she would have finished school and attended university.
That was a long time ago. I hope with all my heart that Sorana and her daughter will live through their current hardship. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 02:55
Member
English to Turkish
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
My beef with you in this instance, with most people in the world, and even with myself, is that we tend to put down the worst attitudes to people's nationalities/gender/religious beliefs, instead of the generally defective and shitty old human nature.
Besides, I really can't stand cynicism anymore. Humour and cynicism make bad bedfellows.
Isn't it interesting though, although we give the clients/translations agencies from certain parts of the world a very wide berth, wouldn't touch their offers with a bargepole as we know it in our bones that they won't pay more than a certain rate and will forever haggle it down, whereas the clients from other certain parts of the world would usually accept our rates or engage in a lot more reasonable negotiation process, we shouldn't name the parts of the world where those people originate from even though a prejudice against them has already been firmly set in our minds. And what's more we shouldn't warn newbies entering into the translation business about the people from whom such tactics will likely come (experience is a wonderful thing, isn't it?) lest we're regarded as racist bigots. Okay, point taken. I understand.
I'm sorry to hear that you can't stand cynicism anymore. I'm a cynical bastard for as long as I've known myself. It's in my nature, I can't help it.
I apologize for the 'posh' comment, that wasn't at all what I meant. I mean I chose the wrong word there. My English is not that great, I sometimes fail to find the right words immediately. I think what I wanted to mean was something along the likes of 'bohemian', 'highbrow', etc.
[Edited at 2023-10-12 12:59 GMT]
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P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 00:55
English to Italian
+ ...
| I'd love ... | Oct 12, 2023 |
... to have a coffee/tea with you, Baran, with plenty of Turkish delights, delighting in your company in a cosy Istanbul venue. Or here even, but I insist on a Turkish tearoom.
I think I get what you mean. As for giving the clients/translations agencies from certain parts of the world a very wide berth, wouldn't touch their offers with a bargepole as we know it in our bones that they won't pay more than a certain rate and will forever haggle it down, this is exactly my experi... See more ... to have a coffee/tea with you, Baran, with plenty of Turkish delights, delighting in your company in a cosy Istanbul venue. Or here even, but I insist on a Turkish tearoom.
I think I get what you mean. As for giving the clients/translations agencies from certain parts of the world a very wide berth, wouldn't touch their offers with a bargepole as we know it in our bones that they won't pay more than a certain rate and will forever haggle it down, this is exactly my experience with Italian agencies. I even stopped working altogether for a couple of years, before migrating to the Netherlands, because there's only so much shit shoving one can deal with.
And unlike many other emerging economies, Italy is one of the richest countries on Earth. That makes it so much more infuriating.
No need to apologise. I wish I were bohemian, and I fancy myself highbrow (I also think that pretentious is actually a compliment).
I stand by my words: you're witty, smart (a bit of a smartarse sometimes, but nobody's perfect), and your heart's in the right place. You may sound cynical, but you're the very opposite of a bastard.
Now that we're cool again, I hope, let's get back to topic.
From what I've been reading on this forum since the start of the year, things are not looking that brilliant for many of us, myself included. I may well be wrong, but the tide could be soon turning, because nothing lasts forever, either the good times, or the bad times, or the infatuation with supposedly "intelligent" technologies. I'm afraid I don't have hard facts and statistics to lend validity to my point. It's just a gut feeling, and how reliable are guts anyway? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
..... I'm a Guardian reader and supporter.....
How disappointing.
The Guardian is a tool of the British establishment.
https://tinyurl.com/ytkdbp8h
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Baran Keki wrote:
I think you can add Italians to the list of people I've racially abused on these forums as well. My observations about Italian translators (their working for cheap rates, living with their parents etc.) were found to be politically incorrect and in extremely poor taste by some Italian ladies here.
I cannot speak for Porzia (BTW NOT Portia), but I insist, you said a lot of stupid stereotypes, which I am sure you never knew in deep. Note that I am limiting my comments just for a matter of forums rules, just please remember, nobody racially abused of Turkish, I could but I refrain from, not only for forum rules, but for a matter of politeness.
Regarding cheep rates of Italians, please look in to your country.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 00:55
English to Italian
+ ...
I was aware I would incur in your disapproval, and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it's less worse than most newspapers – although not leftist enough for me, and heavily biased on many issues – and I try to take what I read with a big pinch of salt. I also rely on other sources.
Speaking of media outlets, my daughter, now a journalist based in London, worked briefly at the Morning Star, the only English-language socialist daily newspaper in the world.
She told me that such a stint wouldn't look too good on her CV, because of its political affiliation. For her career, it would have been better to be hired by the likes of the Daily Mail/Sun/Daily Mirror ... the very thought makes me queasy ...
Luckily, her career didn't suffer any blows, but it's funny, isn't it? They look down on you, if you work for a left-wing newspaper, but it's all fine and dandy, when you lend your services to a tabloid, famously owned by a notorious fascist.
[Edited at 2023-10-12 17:24 GMT]
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| not politically | Oct 12, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I think you can add Italians to the list of people I've racially abused on these forums as well. My observations about Italian translators (their working for cheap rates, living with their parents etc.) were found to be politically incorrect and in extremely poor taste by some Italian ladies here.
I remember those comments, and they were not found politically incorrect; they were manifestly incorrect. They weren't based on genuine observations but were instead mere stereotypes propagated online. My livelihood depends almost entirely on the Italian market, and I'm delighted to share with you my observations: Italian agencies are far from being bottom-feeders. They won't burden you with endless procedures, making you sign and scan tens of documents. And they are delightful to work with, infusing the collaboration with a sense of joy.
Unlike some others, they won't ambush you with an email on a leisurely Friday afternoon, demanding a staggering 22,000 words translated by 9:00 AM on Monday. As for the rates charged by Italian translators in other language pairs, I remain blissfully unaware. Frankly, it doesn't concern me as long as it doesn't impact the market value of my own services. Thus, there's no need to reach for the stereotype gun, which can backfire some day, leaving us wounded by misconceptions.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 02:55
Member
English to Turkish
| Your memory is playing tricks on you | Oct 12, 2023 |
Metin Demirel wrote:
I remember those comments, and they were not found politically incorrect; they were manifestly incorrect. They weren't based on genuine observations but were instead mere stereotypes propagated online. My livelihood depends almost entirely on the Italian market, and I'm delighted to share with you my observations: Italian agencies are far from being bottom-feeders. They won't burden you with endless procedures, making you sign and scan tens of documents. And they are delightful to work with, infusing the collaboration with a sense of joy.
Unlike some others, they won't ambush you with an email on a leisurely Friday afternoon, demanding a staggering 22,000 words translated by 9:00 AM on Monday. As for the rates charged by Italian translators in other language pairs, I remain blissfully unaware. Frankly, it doesn't concern me as long as it doesn't impact the market value of my own services. Thus, there's no need to reach for the stereotype gun, which can backfire some day, leaving us wounded by misconceptions.
Hi Metin,
I've never worked with an Italian agency so far. It's not because I'm racist/prejudiced against them, it's just that the opportunity has never presented itself. If I'm being completely honest, the things I've read on these forums such as the 60/90+ day payment terms kind of put me off, but I'd never have rejected any collaboration opportunities from them. You can ask Angie Garbarino if you like, she'll confirm that I've said nothing against the Italian translation agencies.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:55
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Wow, severely strayed from the topic. | Oct 12, 2023 |
There are so many lengthy posts that have nothing to do with the main topic here.
Yes Baran, you are the main villain of the topic. It’s official. Where is the “report a post button/feature” when you need one? : )
Sorana emailed you, she emailed me, did she email somebody else too? I don’t have the time to email back and forth outside job emails (ain’t I rude, rude and proud of the monopoly over my inbox). If she has something to tell me, she can say it here. ... See more There are so many lengthy posts that have nothing to do with the main topic here.
Yes Baran, you are the main villain of the topic. It’s official. Where is the “report a post button/feature” when you need one? : )
Sorana emailed you, she emailed me, did she email somebody else too? I don’t have the time to email back and forth outside job emails (ain’t I rude, rude and proud of the monopoly over my inbox). If she has something to tell me, she can say it here. She obviously can afford the time to randomly email everyone, I thought she was a very busy parent?
To the OP: I briefly worked as a PM, and I was instructed not to contact ProZ profiles without a verified member badge. Maybe consider adding one, to increase your exposure. I think that may involve an ID with a photo (if I recall it well), address check too.
If I were to recommend the OP to a client, I would have to say: No name, no photo, no WWAs, no verified badge, no history, won’t show identity/photo. The clients will be delighted to pay their money to a lot of NOs, ambiguities and identity/history blurriness.
[Edited at 2023-10-12 21:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki wrote:
You can ask Angie Garbarino if you like, she'll confirm that I've said nothing against the Italian translation agencies.
Hi Baran,
Actually, no. My memory is not playing tricks on me. But I made the mistake of assuming that those low-rate Italian translators, as per your stereotype, would be working for Italian agencies. I failed to consider the possibility that they might be accepting peanut rates of the agencies from other countries instead of choosing to collaborate with their generous compatriots
In any case, my intention was not to accuse you of racism, but rather to point out that your style, though sharp and clever I must admit, could use a touch of moderation. I really enjoy reading your posts, and I believe you could have a following if you started blogging (I wish I could have that skill). However, I can't help but recall some of your stereotypical comments that were offensive, and lately, I've noticed an increase in asterisks in your posts. It almost sounds like you take pride in disregarding the feelings of the audience, dismissing opposing views as merely "politically incorrect." Maybe you possess the fortitude to shrug off a stereotyping comment that could easily hurt others, but not everyone has to have a thick skin.
I think, after this rambling and derailment, I owe to offer some advice for the original poster.
@Sorana,
I don't know anything about your skills or the conditions in your market. But I know one universal truth that applies to all markets and all providers: those who land clients are not the best ones in their craft, but the ones who market themselves the best. The minimum monthly output of a freelance translator must be around 30-40 thousands words a month so that he/she can survive. It is nothing compared to the size of your country's economy. I believe millions of words are translated from English and French into Romanian every month. What you should do is to go claim your slice, for which you must assert your presence actively. Everything you said here and in the previous threads is the opposite of this. Those who take their slices of 40k words a month (or 100k words a month, perhaps), I am sure, do not negotiate with their potential clients by obscuring their identities. Instead, they must be trying to strengthen their visibility even more. After you have established a satisfying and continuous cooperation, you may choose to go anonymous to others and remain visible only to your clients, but you don't have them yet. Why does Coca Cola continue advertising while they dominate the global market? Is Coca Cola concerned about a potential competitor surpassing the century-old brand?
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| I don't and can't confirm nothing | Oct 13, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
You can ask Angie Garbarino if you like, she'll confirm that I've said nothing against the Italian translation agencies.
No, I don't, because you know what? I don't read all your posts, who knows what you are able to say?
Bye bye
| | | | | But you worked for a Spanish agency, that pays 0.04 | Oct 13, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I've never worked with an Italian agency so far.
I saw your 5 star entry in the BB, while checking this agency when they contacted me, They pay 0.04, so... what are we discussing about? Rates, lies, stereotypes, what?
I wish a nice week end to all!
[Edited at 2023-10-13 06:52 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 00:55
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Unbelievable | Oct 13, 2023 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Sorana emailed you, she emailed me, did she email somebody else too? I don’t have the time to email back and forth outside job emails (ain’t I rude, rude and proud of the monopoly over my inbox).
You sure have time, though, to extensively reply in all the forums here. And yes, you are being rude, and in a way that is totally unnecessary. At least Baran's not so very nice words are at least partially justifed by his rather consistent use of sarcasm/cynism. What's your excuse ? If it would also be sarcasm/cynism by coincidence, I suggest you take some lessons from Baran.
Lingua 5B wrote: If she has something to tell me, she can say it here. She obviously can afford the time to randomly email everyone, I thought she was a very busy parent?
My god, do you sometimes re-read what you have typed ? If people reach out to you in private messages instead of public conversations, they probably have a good reason to do so. And unless they have been harassing you in those private messages, there's no reason whatsoever to disclose this and try to shame people for it. I'm sorry, but your behaviour, including your assumptions, is disgusting.
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